250. What’s Selling in Coworking Today and What Customers Are You Serving?

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250. What’s Selling in Coworking Today and What Customers Are You Serving?

00:00:01 Welcome to the Everything Coworking podcast, where you learn what you need to know about how the world wants to work. And now your host coworking space owner and trend expert, Jamie Russo. Welcome to the Everything Coworking podcast. This is your host, Jamie Russo. Thank you for joining me today. So I just have a solo episode today. I want to talk about what's happening in the market.

00:00:40 What's selling what customers want. I hear a lot about what's happening in the market across kind of the hats that I wear in the industry. You know, all the operators that I talk to every month. And I just, I also visited a coworking space this week. So kind of coalescing my thoughts here, but a couple of things to start with.

00:01:03 Number one, the content that I'm going to talk about today, I actually put in the weekly newsletter this week. And if you already subscribed to the newsletter, you may or may not have read it because it was very long. It was one of those that I was like, this is really not newsletter content. This is more of a blog post,

00:01:21 but I also really wanted to voice over it. So hopefully it was thought provoking. I know some of you read it because I got a few responses, but if you're not subscribed to our weekly newsletter, I'd put lots of stuff in there that doesn't get to the podcast. And I also remind you to listen to the podcast every week in the newsletter,

00:01:39 you can go to our website, which is at Everything Coworking dot com and in the footer. There's an opt-in. So we'd love to have you on the list and make sure you stay up to date. The other exciting news is that I'm a launching a second podcast with a cohost. I'm not going to say a lot more than that, but stay tuned.

00:02:01 I'll start promoting that. We're going to start recording next week and have a few episodes in the bank, and then we'll start promoting and sharing some more. So it will be different than this podcast is mostly going to be focused on landlords and multi-site operators and kind of big picture what's happening in the industry. So this podcast will still have operator interviews and industry news and Q and a episodes.

00:02:27 And of course the episodes where I want to hop on and share what's in my head and share that with you. So keep listening to this one and we will share shortly the info on the new podcast. So lots going on here. Okay. So the topic for today's discussion is really about what selling in Coworking today and what customers you're serving. So this is an ongoing theme because I think it's really,

00:02:59 really important. And it's challenging. I think for any business owner to really stay aligned with what their mission is, who they want to serve, what their offerings are and then how they actually deliver and execute on that in alignment. So when someone is designing a business, I'm working with a woman right now who is in my startup school and doing one-on-one.

00:03:25 I have opened some, we started an accelerator program for our Coworking Startup School, by the way. So if you've been thinking about the Coworking Startup School, but wanted some one-on-one support there's info on that, on the website as well. So there's spending lots of time with some of some of those folks and getting into the real, you know, details of their plan.

00:03:47 And I had a call with someone the other day, and we were working through the realities of the sort of heartfelt mission to serve entrepreneurs, to help. I won't remember her language exactly, but, you know, really to help freelancers entrepreneurs, small businesses connect, thrive, and be successful. But then there was a discussion about the fact that the space is small and how to afford staff and still make the space profitable.

00:04:21 And when you look at the execution of not having staff, then you really have to go back to the mission and say, are we really helping people connect and thrive here? Or is that a potential byproduct of just giving them affordable space, which is certainly a level of helping them survive or thrive, thrive in connect. But if we're not facilitating it,

00:04:47 I'm not sure we can take credit for that. And it's not really our mission if we're not staffing and facilitating and programming, et cetera. So it's challenging to, you know, devise a business model that allows you to deliver on all of the, you know, sort of big picture wise around what you're interested in delivering in the business. So, and then also,

00:05:13 you know, what do people buy and you want to sell what people are buying. So I want to kind of dive into that and part of what sparked this is my visit to a coworking space in the area, which I'll talk about one that I had not been to before and some, you know, kind of chatter in our slack group. So I run a mastermind program for operators that are already in business.

00:05:36 We are evolving that and relaunching that to stay tuned for that as well. But there's some talk in our slack group, somebody jumped in and said, Hey, you know, I had a hot desk member join and only stay for a month. And they got the pricing that we give to like longer-term members. Cause they didn't know they were only staying for a month and you know,

00:05:57 what do I do about that? And how do we handle it? And somebody else jumped in and said, you know what? We rely on our private spaces, our offices, basically in meeting rooms to generate our profit. And so we're pretty low key. We don't sweat it when somebody just wants to stay for a month, which helps us sort of relax and sleep better at night.

00:06:19 And I think a lot of you, especially a lot of my startups school folks who are designing their model are really thinking through what their product mix is and who they're going to serve and you know, where the revenue is going to come from. And I think people are really optimistic about revenue coming from flex desks, which I think is still very challenging.

00:06:44 And so I thought when our member posted and said, you know what, I just don't worry about the revenue from flex desk. That's a great spot to be in. I think something to consider as you're designing this location or an X location, we're thinking about updating your product mix. I had someone else email me and I can't tell where he's from.

00:07:03 I suspect Europe and said, I want to start a co-working space. You know, how many flex desks can I fit in X square feet? And I responded and said, well, I would not ever start a co-working space with only flex desks that you know, is generally not profitable. And so certainly there are cases where that is the case, but it's hard today.

00:07:28 Right? And then he said, well, how many times can I assume I can oversell them is three times about right. And if you've been through my Coworking Startup School, you know, I'd talk about that a lot. So I won't go into detail there, but it just, you know, I realized that people are really still trying to figure out what is the product mix and what do people buy?

00:07:47 And his argument back to the guy who wanted all flex desk, was it, he just really wants to serve the person who's at home and needs a break from being at home, which I totally get. So we're going to talk about that in a minute here. Not really a minute in several minutes. So we're going to talk about sort of the who's,

00:08:06 you know, who's buying. So if you have a larger space, you know, in a bigger market, so probably not like really suburban or rural, the corporate team buyer is probably showing up for you. I have some members for whom this is absolutely the case. You know, the corporate folks feel like it's their duty. This is not for,

00:08:29 you know, the case for everyone, but we're starting to see this happen, happen where they, you know, start an office in a market and they want to provide access to a workspace to their members. So what we see sometimes is they'll buy a seat for every employee that might use the space. So I have one member who has 60,000 feet and she's selling 20 seat spaces,

00:08:54 30 spaces. And sometimes they go for the one-to-one ratio. Sometimes they say, well, we have 40 people. We want 20 seats and that can work. And that can cause some problems. So I think the folks who are doing this are really working through, you know, what does this look like? How do we set the right expectations? How do we have the right code of conduct in place?

00:09:18 How do we give feedback when those groups are not acting, how we had hoped they had acted, et cetera, because some of that is definitely happening. And the thing that I see right now is that the folks who are buying those seats, aren't really caring at this moment. Or if those seats are getting used, they just want to provide access.

00:09:37 So the woman I just referred to who has 60,000 feet, she said she has some groups that don't come in ever. You know, somebody thought they needed access to space. The group is full of programmers and they like to work at home. She's a gorgeous space by the way. And they just don't come in. But you know, we talked through probably in a year or two,

00:09:58 so they signed a long-term agreement. They're going to start asking for utilization reports, who's using the space. How often are they coming in? What kind of space do we really need? You know, to offer. They don't eventually they won't want to waste money and they won't do the one-to-one ratio. And this group, you know, Hey, they may not show up,

00:10:19 which is good news or bad news. They may not care a lot about price. So again, the corporate person says, you know, real estate HR, we want to provide access to workspace and it's expensive per head for them to build out their own space. It's expensive upfront. There's ongoing, you know, all the things that we, you as co-working space operators deal with,

00:10:45 they have that. And so the price is not a big deal for them. They do, you know, they don't want to waste money. So if nobody's coming in or they, you know, only half of the people will come in on any given day. Some folks are just being really, you know, sort of realistic about that, but not being overly price sensitive.

00:11:03 And they're probably looking for space with team suites. They want their team to be together. They're not looking for 10 private offices. They're looking for a team suite with access to meeting rooms. They want a professional design is going to be easy enough for their employees to get to. So it has to be kind of in the right location. And they probably don't care a ton about community.

00:11:27 You're going to have some folks in that group are excited about that aspect if you offer it. But it's really more of a workspace in a good location. That's professional, that's kind of what they're buying, right? And if you have a space that's less than 10,000 square feet, you probably won't ever see this customer. So how do you get this business?

00:11:46 Some of it is just luck, right place, right time. You have a professional space in a location that works for that team. The team suites are large enough for that team and you're doing the right things to get in front of those buyers. You're listed on the lead generation sites. So you've got, you know, Google reviews, you've got all the things in place to get the attention of that buyer.

00:12:08 You have a good sales process. You have a good follow-up process. You know how to write proposals for these groups. You know how to follow up on, you know, all the things that you need to do to get that business. But part of it is you have a space that's big enough and you're in the right location for that demand. Otherwise you may never see that demand the small business buyer,

00:12:28 the customer needs space, you know, for their team, small team, smaller than 20 seats, probably they care about the productivity and wellbeing of their team. And they probably care about price to some extent more than the corporate buyer, right? They are kind of managing real estate as a cost. They look at it more as something they really should provide to a team that wants to get together.

00:12:51 They want a space that's professional and has private offices. They may be looking for more smaller offices than a team suite. They want access to meeting rooms. They may need to meet clients. They want a location. That's not more than a 20 minute commute for their team. They also may want access to networking and community engagement, but they also, you know,

00:13:12 they're there to work with each other and they may be kind of heads down when they're in. So that's a little bit of a mixed bag, but the small business buyer maybe has leased their own real estate before and realizes how challenging that is. You know, the gear, the personal guarantee, the deposits, the furnishing, you know, the taking care of the space,

00:13:32 all the things. So I kind of love this customer because I think they really appreciate the pre the pain point and they really love the plug-in play space for their team. So, and I think they're kind of down the middle in terms of, they appreciate access to other folks in the community, but they're not generally, you know, super high, super high maintenance for the Community Manager.

00:13:56 So maybe a little bit of a sweet spot there. Another group that I wanted to mention is the corporate meeting room user. And again, you have to have the right space to get this business and you have to be in front of the right folks. And I would really encourage you to work on your content marketing around meeting rooms. Make sure you are SEO optimized for meeting rooms,

00:14:17 make sure you're writing blog posts and doing all the things to putting it into your newsletter. Having people write Google reviews about your meeting rooms. If you have meeting rooms that are a good option for folks in your, in your area. So you might be in, you know, more densely populated suburb of a major city. So for example, I was on a call last week and Peter's in can't remember if Peter spent on the podcast?

00:14:42 I think probably a long time ago he manages, well, I don't actually know what Peter is right now. I worked with him at the global workspace association because he was our Tri-Net partner and kind of managed accounts that came through the GWA from coworking spaces that wanted access to benefit. So Tri-Net is a PEO, which means they can employ, create a shared pool of employees for insurance reasons,

00:15:15 et cetera. And they provide payroll and benefits and all that good stuff. And we still use them for the global workspace association. So Peter, because, you know, flex has also become part of the group that helps to support flex use within Tri-Net. So try not got a new head of real estate who is pretty forward-thinking and the group said, okay,

00:15:39 we're going to open up access to flex space to any employee, not within 30 minutes of a Tri-Net like corporate hub. So try not has offices in New York and LA, but he said, you know, most of Tri-Net employees don't live within 30 miles of a Tri-Net hub. So he said, you know, there are groups that are in, you know,

00:16:01 like operational roles, maybe they don't care and don't want to leave home, but everybody has access to flex space. So he said, the groups that are really using it are the sales team. The sales team needs to have meeting space. And they're booking a lot of meetings in Chicago. He mentioned so downtown, but also in the suburbs. And he said,

00:16:22 sometimes those folks have a meeting and decide to join the space. They love it. Right. And they live nearby and they say, okay, I'll come in. You know, whenever I want, Trena is not very sensitive about price here. They're not, you know, asking for deals they're booking through LiquidSpace and those bills are getting paid. They do care about location.

00:16:39 So again, it's sort of a little bit of luck. Are you in places where these folks are and or do you have the right size of meeting rooms? He did mention that one of the gaps they have is for bigger team meetings. Like, you know, the area sales team needs to meet and they have 20 or more people. So if you don't have a large meeting room,

00:16:59 then they probably won't use your space. And I think the trick with this is that when someone gets used to a space, they probably use that space for all of their meeting needs. So if you don't have the bigger meeting room, then they will go to the place that has the bigger meeting room and just use it for all the things. So something to think about if you're working on a new location,

00:17:24 and if you think these users exist in your area, try not to just one example, but it was, you know, a specific example that I could share. And he was super excited about the utilization that his team is making. And he also mentioned, he's like, look, I love it. When the sales teams are in coworking spaces, they go in there to take sales meetings.

00:17:46 And he said, you know, their close rate is much higher in person than on zoom, which can make sense, right? So he, how do you get this business? You have a professional space and a location that works for teams. You have parking, you have meeting rooms that are the right size for sales teams and client meetings. If you can host these customer segments above you probably have.

00:18:11 We probably kind of lucky right now. So if you can get the corporate buyer, the small business buyers, if you have teams, Swedes, do you have lots of private offices? You have meeting rooms that skew to the large size, you're getting these new leads that maybe were harder to get pre COVID. And some of this is just really opening up.

00:18:29 I mean, I just, I love when I hear these case studies of folks of companies saying, look, go to LiquidSpace. You can book anything on LiquidSpace and we get one bill. There's so much freedom in that, which I love. So the trick is that some of you listening and even those of you with large spaces and the woman I mentioned with 60,000 feet,

00:18:53 she said, okay, I'm killing it on my team sweeps, but I, you know, the individuals, the dedicated desks, those that's moving really slowly. And so, you know, we talked through that and I think this is really challenging. So, well, I'll start with the less challenging segment, which is the individual who has distractions at home.

00:19:15 So for sure, I mentioned the gentleman that emailed me and said, you know, I want to do all flex desks. There's gotta be people at home who need to get out of the house. Yes. So do you have kids? Do you have roommates, you know, noisy spouse, distracting dogs, like it's physically challenging for you to work at home.

00:19:34 There are that segment exists, right? So they want to get out of the house and find a space that they like enough. So they're searching to solve the problem of like noise and productivity. I'm kind of segmenting these, this individual from the next individual that we'll talk about. So obviously there are variations within these segments, but I think that this group,

00:20:00 you know, they're really solving a problem. They're not being aspirational about leaving the house. They're being practical about leaving the house. So they may not want an office. Some of them do, right? Some of them want a micro office or a single office, but they probably need access to phone booth so that they can make calls. They probably are the type,

00:20:18 that's not packing a lunch. And so they need to walk out and, you know, be able to get a decent lunch. They've got dogs and kids and all the things at home they're busy. So they probably value walkability and amenities nearby. We're on site. It's probably not a super profitable customer, but they're also probably pretty low maintenance. So they're going to take a dedicated desk or they're going to take a small office,

00:20:42 or they're going to take a Coworking membership or even something part-time, but they're probably not using your meeting rooms. They probably drink a lot of coffee, but they don't take up a lot of your team's time. The trick for this segment is you need a lot of these folks, right? To make meaningful revenue and you need to attract them and get in front of them and let them know that Coworking is a solution for them.

00:21:05 And you need them to be able to find you and other things, and you need them to get them to pull the trigger on making the decision. This group is probably easier than the next group, because this group is trying to problem solve, but they're harder to get in front of then the corporate group, the small business user, the meeting users,

00:21:23 those guys are active or gals are active searchers for space, right? So we're getting into the segments that may not be active searchers. This is another theme I've talked about a lot. So from a marketing standpoint, we're spending more money to get these folks. It takes more work and more of the right messaging and more of all the things to get to them.

00:21:48 Hey, there, I'm going to interrupt for just a quick second. Someone reached out to me recently, for some help, they were negotiating a management agreement using a property management agreement template as their starting point. You do not want to do that. So I sent this person straight to Michael Abrams. And what you want to do is understand all the possible negotiation points for a management agreement,

00:22:16 what the relationship looks like, which is very different from a property management agreement, what the roles look like, who does, what, what happens if you want to know what all of those possibilities are and what the structure of an agreement looks like for a management agreement so that you can confidently negotiate with your partner. You don't want to start with a template.

00:22:40 That's not for a management agreement because it's just like philosophically not aligned. And you don't want to start with someone else's template because maybe they started with a property management template, or they just ended up with a deal that is not what your deal is going to look like. So you want to start with the base of all the things that you need to know about how a management agreement works and it gets negotiated.

00:23:03 So you've heard us talk about this before. We're starting our next live cohort for our creative Coworking partnerships course, the week of April 26, which is in a couple of weeks. When you register for the course, you get all the content immediately. So we've recorded modules that are online. You can binge watch them. You can listen to them in your car and you get access to all of our past Q and A's as well.

00:23:30 But we also run a new cohort of live Q and A's. And right now you get an invite to every new cohort once you join the class. So if you're just at the beginning of your journey, you'll get an invite to our next cohort. We've been running this course about a year. Now we've run four cohorts. I think we have a number of folks in the group working on deals.

00:23:54 Some are working on deals with their current landlords. Some are working on deals with landlords. If they've met locally, some are just kind of pursuing deals outside of their local market. As a way to expand. We've had landlords in the course as well, who are looking for partners and looking to understand how the relationship works. So if you are thinking about or working on a management agreement,

00:24:18 you want to be pretty close. I think because it's pretty practical and tactical, but if you want to learn, how are you getting close to starting to consider negotiating one? Then it's a great course. It's super in depth. Michael has decades of experience in real estate and he has Coworking management agreement experience. He's always working on deals with folks. So he knows kind of the latest and greatest of what folks are negotiating.

00:24:45 So, like I said, everything's online, but we run a live Q and a cohort for three to four weeks, kind of, depending on the activity of the group. And that next live cohort will start April 26th. So if you want the details on the course and to join us for the live cohort, you can find them at Everything, Coworking dot com forward slash management agreement.

00:25:06 The next segment is I think, who a lot of you would love to attract. So when I see mission statements that talk about helping folks thrive and connect, and this may be entrepreneurs, this may be women. This may be, you know, you name it. A lot of the folks that go through my startup school have just this really strong.

00:25:28 Why about serving their local entrepreneurs or moms or, you know, that kind of thing. So I sort of think of this individual as the individual that is aspirational and wants more out of life. So they may have a perfectly fine home office that they made pretty nice, you know, during COVID, they, you know, don't need to put on pants and leave their house,

00:25:54 but they want to. And so they have that like unsatisfied, unsatisfied, feeling about being at home. They want something more, they don't feel like they're being fulfilled at home. They're lonely. So they might be a freelancer. They might be self-employed. They might be a remote worker thinking about a change. They might be anyone except the segments we already talked about who really need space for their work.

00:26:19 You know, maybe they're feel like they're just like losing their mojo or they don't have like the social interaction they want. And they may feel like they're just not, you know, staying focused on exactly the right things at home. And they need a change of pace. They need to go somewhere and really get into the routine. Maybe they move during the pandemic.

00:26:37 I hear this over and over again from some of my members, oh, we're giving lots of tours to people who just moved here. So they might be looking for ways to make new friends, you know, or they just want to get more out of their day. Here's what I think about this segment. I think they're not that price sensitive, but you have to deliver very,

00:26:58 very at a very high level for them because you're competing with their perfectly fine home office and they're not solving a problem that really needs to be solved. This problem could be drawn out and not solved for a long time. So they will come out of the house for something really compelling that really drives home. The things that we've talked about. So they want a great Coworking experience.

00:27:27 They want great design. They want hospitality. Of course they want great coffee. They probably, if they're me want an espresso machine and they want the community engagement, they want to meet people. They don't want to go into a library, a big open space with 10 people in it who are not talking to each other. And don't look like they've ever even considered talking to each other.

00:27:48 So these are higher touch members. They're not going to disappear down a hallway and into their office for hours on end. They have work to do for sure. They're not coming in to eat bonbons and watch Netflix, right? They are professionals, but they have different needs. So their commitment to your spaces, contingent on you delivering at a very high level community engagement and hospitality.

00:28:15 And you probably recognize this is not that easy. And it's a decision to focus. It should be an intentional decision to focus on this individual. So if you are running a space that only focuses on these individuals, you have picked the hardest model, probably the most rewarding model, but the hardest model you're doing more marketing and you're delivering at a much higher level.

00:28:40 Your space has to be really compelling. So recognize that you have to kill it on all those things. And you have to be very intentional and you have to do it forever. You know, and if you do it, I think there'll be really committed. So that first group, you know, the corporate buyer, you know, they may never show up.

00:29:00 They don't really care how you deliver, right? Your space is nice enough. They don't know if you, you know, do delight member Friday or waffle Wednesday, or they're not there for those things. They don't really care. And somebody else is paying. And you know, you can kind of cruise a little bit if you need to, but you know,

00:29:20 these individuals that you want to attract that want more out of life, they want, they want a lot. They're not coming in. I see this model. And if you're listening and you have this model, you don't have to agree with me, but I see this retail coworking space model pop up with no professional. You know, there's desks, there's no offices,

00:29:45 maybe a couple of phone booths. And I think the folks who are running these models think that if you build it, they will come. They think there are all these people who need to get out of the house. And of course they will just show up to the nearest space, sit in the open space in fairly uninspiring design. And I don't mean that they're not modern and perfectly fine.

00:30:06 I think that that is not going to succeed. I think the bar for getting folks to pay when they don't need an office is very high. I think you have to be very compelling in terms of amenities and hospitality and connection and all of those things to get this segment out of the house. Again, this is the individual that wants more out of life segment.

00:30:33 I do think in general spaces becoming more competitive because there's more demand. There's more supply when there's more choice, you know, the bar will go up, but there are still lots of markets that don't have great choices yet. And so if you're thinking about starting a space or a second location, and you're good at what you do, I still think there's,

00:30:55 I don't think I know there's so much opportunity in this space. So this individual member that wants more out of life, you know, you have to really want this customer. You might decide you don't want this customer because it's too much work. You need a really great community manager that really loves people and knows how to connect and engage members. So that's a big deal.

00:31:22 It's these members that require active facilitation and programming and member events and all those things, you know, not on overkill, but consistently and authentically. So let me just share for a minute. The experience I had that partly made me think about the segments I visited, and I will just tell you it was a, we work. I visited a, we work in a suburb near me.

00:31:51 It's actually, I think the closest co-working space to me. So I shared many episodes back about a couple of other coworking spaces that I toured that did not work for me. And real estate is very expensive here. So I'm going to have to help somebody do a management agreement. It's a really great space. I have so many startups school members who are starting spaces that I desperately want to join or folks in our Community Manager University that have just the most beautiful spaces with the best community managers,

00:32:24 because I know them they're in our group and I want that in our market, but we don't have it. So I visited the we work. And if I visit your space, I will not pick on you on the podcast. I promise, I will only say nice things if they are warranted, but we work as a public company, they have resources.

00:32:40 And so I do not feel bad about sharing my experience there. Here's what I think. Clean, nice design, great windows. I am a natural light person. I will not sit in a place that has doesn't have huge windows. So that was a big deal for me. So I just, again was like, I gotta get out of the house.

00:33:01 I am the, I want more out of life person. I've perfectly nice home office. I can't stand being at home and I want to meet people. So I've said this before, I'm starting to sound desperate. I'm the only person who wants more friends and wants to connect with other business owners locally. I want to know who they are and I want to spend time with them.

00:33:20 And I want somebody to help, you know, facilitate that. So I visited the rework and first I should say, maybe it's my phone, but I tried to download their app twice. It didn't work. I had to restart my phone. I tried to book a day pass. It gave me an error a bunch of times. And then I thought it didn't work.

00:33:39 And I went to restart my phone. And then I had an email saying it did actually work. So then I was nervous. I got charged multiple times, which I didn't, but that was not a smooth experience. So I booked a day pass and I went in and on the it's a big building. I don't know how many square feet they have several floors,

00:33:59 maybe six floors. So I go to the first floor and there are two folks sitting at the front desk. I'm not going to call them community managers because I don't think that's reflective of their role. Let's call them operations managers or hosts. So, you know, they gave me the key card that I need and sent me to the fourth floor and said,

00:34:17 there are bathrooms and phone rooms on the fourth floor. So that was it. No tour, no. You know, any of those things. That's cool. Except, you know, I live in town, you know, I have an address that is in town. I don't know. Probably they don't know that, but they didn't ask zero questions.

00:34:37 They asked me zero questions, which I cannot relate to. I don't even understand, even if you're not trained to ask questions, how you don't ask questions. I is so beyond me because I am the most curious person. If I ever meet you in person, I will have a thousand questions for you because I want to know you. And I don't understand people that don't want to know other people.

00:34:56 So nothing. No. How was your day? Did you find parking? Okay. Who are you are thinking about joining? You can't do a free day. Pass it. We work, right? Like there's no trial. You just buy a $30 a day pass. So that's what I did. So I went to the fourth floor and it's huge big open space.

00:35:16 I would say at least 4,000 square feet, maybe more enormous windows all across one wall, which was awesome. So nice and bright. I don't even know if there were lights on. I can't remember. So there's lots of soft seating, which zero people were using. And then there's this an area with desks, which are like individual, which I liked.

00:35:38 So it's not a dedicated desk. You just use it for the day, but big, probably 60 inches, maybe 52 inches, you know, with chairs. And so I'm kind of getting the lay of the land, cause it's a big open space. There's no signage anywhere. So I have to use the bathroom immediately and I knew I had a phone call.

00:35:59 And so I wanted to know where the phone rooms were and I wanted to go scope the phone rooms to see how busy they were. And did I need to worry about getting one for my phone call? So I'm kind of looking around and one of the managers asked me in that voice where they don't really want to help you, but obviously you need help.

00:36:14 They're going to ask if I needed help. And they said, you know, I'm just looking for the restroom in the phone rooms. And so she pointed me in the right direction. I don't know why there are no signs because it's totally not clear. And so that to me is a great insight. If you have a big space and you sell day passes,

00:36:33 then have some signage. I was thinking about that, you know, from when I had spaces, like we did not have signage for the bathroom because we probably thought, well, everyone knows where the bathroom is, but if you have a lot of drop-ins your meeting room users put up signage because they don't have to ask it's awkward. So there were probably 10 people in that 4,000 square foot space.

00:36:53 No more, maybe less. So, you know, I grabbed a seat. I, I will tell you it's super good to do these things. You should go visit other spaces because it's the little things. So I sat there at the desk and I was perfectly happy to get on the wifi, which was easy. They'd told me how to do that.

00:37:12 And, but then my computer needed to be charged and I couldn't figure out I was looking under the, you know, on the, for the, on the floor for power. And I, the only power was like across the desk, across from mine. So my power cord wasn't long enough. So I was like gonna move all my stuff to get power.

00:37:32 That's kind of weird. So I pick up and I move the chair that I moved to the like knobby thing on the floor. So they were not tasked chairs would usually have a big problem with, but these were fine. I sat in them all day and they were fine, but the knobby thing on the chair leg was off. So I couldn't sit there because the chair was wobbly.

00:37:53 So take inventory of your chairs and make sure you know that. So then I had to move to a third location and as I'm doing this, I realized there's actually power in between the desks, which is great. And I figured that out, cause I'm like looking at the power cords and oh, there's something happening here, but it was not obvious.

00:38:11 And so I thought, you know, I don't know, should someone have told me that that's where the power was or just made it like put a little sign on the desk or is that just user error? It might be user error, but that was a lot of like moving around for me to figure out how to plug in my laptop. Anyway,

00:38:29 the phone rooms were quite a challenge. So there teeny bit kind, which is fine. Right? That's totally fine. I advocate small phone booths, the kind that have the like push door, not like the swing open door, like the collapsible kind of door. I don't know what that door is called, but soundproof enough, you know, definitely not soundproof,

00:38:53 but the real problem is they were not vented. So I was super hot, super hot. I had a one, one hour call, thank goodness it was with my team member. And I kept having to like fling open the door and not talk. So I wouldn't annoy people and just to cool down. So one of my concerns about going back there is that I don't think I can sit in the phone booth.

00:39:17 You know, I wonder if I took a fan if I took a mini fan and plugged it in, maybe I'll try that. I'll sit on a bad idea. So that was a huge problem. The other weird thing about the phone booth is that I tell you this because I think people don't do they know these things or do they not know these things?

00:39:37 Maybe they're fine with the fact that you CA you CA I mean, 15 minutes may be in the phone booth. So I ha I have a legitimate concern that I can't take phone calls there. And the phone booths were empty. The second time I went back there, I was the only one using the phone booth. There were probably six of them.

00:39:52 So the other thing, the first one I went into, I sat down and I sorta like wobbled on the seat and I was like, what's happening here? So the seat cushion headlight caved in, I don't know how that happens. Like thousands of people had sat there, which I don't think is the case because the space opened right before COVID. So not that many people have been in the space.

00:40:14 It has lots of offices, by the way. I'm sure that's where all the humans were not in the open space in the offices. Although I didn't see lots of humans period for how big the space was, but there may be other floors with coffee and whatnot, and that this was just the shared floor. So it may be that I just didn't have access to everything is key card control.

00:40:32 So you can only go into certain places. I couldn't go down any hallways, every, all the hallways are key card controlled. So it had like collapsed. So I was like, okay, well, I can't sit here. I have a back problem. But also in general it was like lopsided. So I went and looked and only one of them wasn't collapsed.

00:40:53 It was like a new cushion. I just was really, I didn't know what to do with that. I don't know how you could let that happen. So we work, please look at your cushions. And I noticed in their open space, same problem, tons of soft seating, but I don't think it's really usable because the cushion collapsed again. I don't even,

00:41:14 I don't, there's probably a better word for that. They're pushed in, but not puffy and springy. Like they should be. So take inventory, sit in your furniture or have somebody come in and shop and ask people for, cause I didn't give that feedback to anybody. What am I going to do with it? I'm not going to write a Google review and tell them their seat cushions are collapsed.

00:41:34 Right. And if I did, would they care? I would care, but I don't know if they would care. So anyway, they have four staff that I encountered on floor between floor one and four floor, fourth floor for the only thing any one of them said to me was, oh, the bathrooms around the corner and the phone booths or the other way,

00:41:55 it took me all day to see that there was an espresso machine, which would have made me extremely happy if I'd found that earlier in the day and ever SIS machine, those are fabulous. They make amazing cappuccinos. Then the other thing that happened to me is they had a kombucha machine and I was like, oh my gosh, man, I could get my $30 worth if I had a cappuccino and a kombucha.

00:42:17 So I went to the kombucha machine, which I have never actually used one of these live taps before. So it had a little sign up that said the flavor. I don't remember the flavor, but it looked really good. And it said, you know, the kombucha machine is open from eight to five basically. And it was, I don't know what time it was early afternoon.

00:42:36 So I pull the handle conversion machine and I don't know if it wasn't connected or if it's empty or what, but it made like a huge hissing sound. And you know, I am fairly confident and comfortable, but that was really awkward. And if I was not a fairly confident and comfortable person in coworking space, that would have made me feel, maybe I wouldn't come back because everybody looked over.

00:43:00 Cause it's super quiet in there. Cause it's 4,000 square feet of 10 people. So everyone had like 400 feet to run around in. So everybody stares at me and I still don't know it wasn't networking. Was it? No staff member came over to help me. They did not care that I couldn't get any kombucha. So I said, I don't know.

00:43:18 And now I'm going to be afraid to try it. Maybe I'll ask someone. So my takeaway I'll stop giving you the rundown of all the things. I mean, again, it's a beautiful space in general. Like I was very, I had two cups of tea, which was nice. They had stash tea. So that was great. And the bathrooms are really clean and you know,

00:43:39 again, like beautiful views, big windows. But I, you know, there were 10 people there. I was never going to interact with those 10 people, the staff, I don't know what they do all day things, but they do not facilitate community. They do have events, but I think they're mostly self-serve events. Like they had a yogurt thing that day and the yogurt was just out for you to take.

00:44:00 So I know that you do that sometimes too, which is totally fine because sometimes we have a hard time getting people to show up at our events. But I think that's the point that I'm making is I thought, you know what? Okay, so there were other people there. They were never, we're never going to interact because there was no vibe that said,

00:44:21 I should introduce myself to someone. And I was looking for that vibe. Right. But there is no indicator that that was acceptable or encouraged. So I wasn't going to do it. I did notice, you know, there was a small team that was sitting near me and I thought, oh my gosh, this is perfect for them because they don't probably care too much.

00:44:43 Again, they might be the, like the tech startup or the small business. They need a place where they can go together. That's nice and professional on his coffee and tea and all the things they want and clean bathrooms. And they probably were super happy to be sitting there together because they didn't care if they met anybody else. And so I thought,

00:45:02 you know what? I am not having the experience that I want here, but anybody who has an office here has a big window with a view and they're happy if they're with their team. I think they're fine. They're totally satisfied with this experience, experience. The place has great reviews on Google. So it's not like everybody who goes there sees the same things that I do.

00:45:25 I'm super picky. And I have a very high bar and I that's my point, which I'm trying to make is if you are serving people like me, the, I want more out of life. I want a great design experience on great coffee. I want someone to care about me and ask me questions and try to connect me to someone else. And I want somebody to tell me that they have a cappuccino station with every Terrani flavor that you could ever imagine.

00:45:51 I want, you know, all those things, but I don't think we work cares to deliver that. That is, I'm not making them money. If I, their membership is like $330 a month, which is a little high for Coworking, but the San Francisco bay area, they still need a whole lot of me to put a dent in their P and L.

00:46:13 So their P and L is fully supported by their office members. They also had 10 meeting rooms, maybe a lot of meeting rooms, maybe more cause I couldn't see all of them or didn't have access to them. I did not see any meetings happening. So they're struggling with that and that location, but meeting room, revenue and offices, that's what they care about.

00:46:34 They're not investing their time in the person like me. So that's just a fact and that's fine. So I don't belong there unless I just need to get out of the house and want to have a day out, but not talk to anybody. So you decide like, I don't know, can you be all of the above? Right? And maybe it takes four people to manage probably does six.

00:46:57 You know, how many for, you know, 60,000 square feet is my guests. And typically you need one Community Manager for every 8,000 square feet. I'm going to mention a brand. I don't know if I've mentioned them on the podcast before, but there is a group called canopy in San Francisco. And I think they cater to some larger teams. 24,000 square feet is I think the space,

00:47:22 one of the spaces I went into and they put me on their mailing list, their internal member, mailing list, they have just incredible networking and connection opportunities. I am like amazed by what I see happening there. So it might be possible to kind of do it all, but I'm not sure you might have to decide. So I think decide who you're serving and sort of 80 20th and,

00:47:47 you know, from a P and L perspective, it's going to make sense to fill your big team spaces and sell your meeting rooms. And your individuals are not going to make you much money. The people like me, cause I'm going to come in for $30 a day and drink your espresso and your kombucha. And then I'm in a role. But if that's who you want to serve,

00:48:11 then also understand that that as a high maintenance business model and you've worked really hard to attract and keep these people. So that's it. I will leave more conclusions and more food for thought for you. I would love to hear your thoughts, send me an email, join us in the Facebook group, get on our email list, go to our website and I will talk to you next week.

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