226. The New Rules of Engagement for Coworking Spaces

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226. The New Rules of Engagement for Coworking Spaces

00:00:01 Welcome to the everything coworking podcast, where you learn what you need to know about how the world wants to work. And now your host coworking space owner and trend expert, Jamie Russo Hey there, I'm doing a slightly different format this week. So I've recently presented at a couple of different events. One of them was the officer in D flex world conference.

00:00:40 And another one was an event in Healdsburg, California for small developers. There's a small developer forum hosted by Jim Hyde as part of ULI, which is the urban land Institute. And I was invited to present to that group last week and it was a tremendously wonderful experience. And I want to have Jim on the podcast so you can hear what he's up to and what this group does.

00:01:06 Jim has his own coworking space in Healdsburg, California. And in both instances I was on a clock. And so I wanted to revisit this presentation and kind of go into the detail that I like to get into. And so I thought I would take this opportunity to do it on the podcast. And we don't talk about this very much, but we have a YouTube channel that we've started to post to.

00:01:30 So all of our podcast episodes are recorded in videos. You can see the guests. And when I do my solo, you can see me and I have slides for this one. So if you want to check out our YouTube channel, you can just search everything co-working on YouTube and you'll find us. We will put a link to the flex world conference.

00:01:50 I want, I am not sure you could still get the recordings, but there were some fantastic sessions as part of that conference. And the whole event was about two and a half hours. So really digestible. And I will put a link to our YouTube channel in the show notes as well. And the show notes you can find by going to our website on the podcast page.

00:02:12 And we also created a podcast index, which you can find there as well. So if you're ever looking for an old episode, we finally created it index and you can find them. So if you're looking at my screen, which you're not, if you're listening, but I'm going to kind of walk you through what you see. So in both of these events,

00:02:29 I had to introduce myself and most of you as podcasts listeners know kind of the context of the work that I do, if you're watching on YouTube, you may not. And I just thought I would kind of mention where some of this context comes from that I'm sharing. So I ran coworking spaces for eight years, one in Chicago, one in Palo Alto under the brand enter space.

00:02:50 And if you are a podcast listener, I share lots of experiences from that. I ran the industry association for five years. I still sit on the board and advisory board, which also gives me lots of, sort of macro perspective. So when I'm introducing myself to someone new, I say, you know, this just kind of really unique perspective on the industry because I have both a macro view for my broader industry experience and leadership roles.

00:03:16 And then also a very micro view because I ran coworking spaces for eight years and went to sleep every night, you know, with my P and L under my pillow. So I have a, you know, just kind of a unique perspective on the industry and love to share with you. And so what I do today, I host the podcast and I also post some programs.

00:03:38 One is called the coworking startup school, and one is called community manager university. So I interact with operators, many operators all month long every month, and learn from them and take lots of notes in terms of what they're thinking about. So it's not based on my business, which I don't run anymore. We closed in June of 2020, but it's based on what I see among lots of operators,

00:03:59 which I think is really helpful. So the coworking startup schools for folks who are starting a space, I also run a program called the flight group, which I don't talk about a lot. It's a mastermind program for operators and we meet in several kind of smaller cohorts every month. And I do a little bit of one-on-one work, which you've probably heard me talk about in previous podcasts.

00:04:20 And then I also do some specialty programs. So I worked with Mike Abrams this year in 2021 to create a management agreement course. So I've met a lot of unique and interesting folks getting into coworking through that outlet and learned a lot about management agreements through Michael and the folks going through that program, working on deals. And I also worked with Kane Wal-Mart to create a course,

00:04:45 to help brokers learn how to sell coworking to their clients who are asking for it more and more, and also got a lot of interesting market perspective in terms of how brokers are thinking about coworking and what's happening in the real estate world today. So a lot going on. And then I get to ask, ask to speak here and there, and I get to learn from other speakers as well.

00:05:06 So the theme of this presentation is the new rules of engagement. And this was the theme that I used for the officer and D presentation. So if you saw it, this is a similar presentation, just with a little bit more detailed than I'm going to talk through. And so the purpose of this theme, and I think this is really timely because it's November when I'm recording this the middle of November,

00:05:29 which means it is the end of the year. And we're looking into 2022 already, which seems impossible every year. It seems impossible, but it is time to be business planning for next year. So with my one-on-one mentors, mentees that I work with or doing budget planning for next year and making sure we're thinking through what are we focusing on? What are our goals for the business?

00:05:53 And so I just thought we'd go through kind of high level, the mindset to have right now, which is that the world of work has changed. And we know this the last 18 months has been just incredible in terms of how much has changed, not incredibly positive in all ways. Incredible in terms of the evolution of how people think about work as something we do at not necessarily a place that we go to.

00:06:18 And so as a co-working space operator, not for everyone, but for many folks, it is a time of questioning everything who you serve, what you sell, your marketing approach and your real estate structure. So you're really questioning kind of these big buckets of how we think about our business. So we'll start with who you serve. So it used to be that we might think about serving independent folks,

00:06:45 and it may be that some of you started your space because you were trying to solve your own problem, which might be that you were sick of being at home and you wanted some place to go that wasn't the coffee shop. You craved community. You saw an opportunity to bring individual folks together for, you know, a greater experience in your own community.

00:07:06 And that is still the case that we're attracting those folks. It is starting to look different though. And you may not be in a market where you're seeing this, or you may need to be in a market where you're seeing this, you know, full court press. I, I see based on all of the operators that I work with every month,

00:07:22 just a huge range of the demand that they're seeing. Some are getting requirements for 50 people, and those folks operate large spaces, you know, 60,000 square feet, but they are getting those large team requirements. And some are not quite getting those requirements yet. But one of the things themes that we're seeing right, is as COVID-19 has changed how enterprise companies work,

00:07:48 that was always sort of a demand flow, but not a significant one. And we're really going to start to see that come through. Other operators are seeing it come through in terms of meeting room demand on a regular basis, or, you know, stipends for employees. But the, I think they're real, you know, theme here is if you skip,

00:08:13 if you're looking at my slides, sort of the highlight here is that McKinsey and PWC have done studies with enterprise companies. And think that roughly 70% will take on some form of hybrid work and hybrid work means that sometimes there'll be in the office and sometimes there'll be at home. And what we know about home is that I talk about this a lot. Home is not the right answer for everyone,

00:08:38 right? And I think that is sort of the challenge of where we are today is that because companies just, they move bigger companies move more slowly. They're struggling to sort of see that in-between option. So they're saying, okay, on my screen, now I'm sharing an example from American express. So they sent out and I can't remember why I saw this.

00:09:01 I think it was an article that I saw on LinkedIn that their new way of working is called Amex flex. And it says Amex flex has three work designations, depending on how many days you come in, this will be your way of working. So they basically said, look, we have, you know, sort of ends of the spectrum. We have the folks that always need to come in for whatever reason their job needs to be done on site.

00:09:28 So they will continue to come in all the time, probably four to five days a week. Then we have the folks who are for whatever reason, fully virtual, they don't ever need to come in. Their job is maybe more individual in nature. It doesn't require a teamwork and interaction and collaboration. Maybe they never worked next to a corporate office. They're fully virtual,

00:09:48 but most people are hybrid, which means they will have a mix of in-office and virtual days and come into the office one to three days a week on average. And so they're kind of planning for that, right? And so the workspace onsite is going to look quite different from what folks, the type of work that folks do at home. But again,

00:10:09 none of this sort of, sort of talks about these, you know, where else do you get work done besides home? Because not everybody has a great office at home or an office period at home, or, you know, a big enough home that allows for them to comfortably work without feeling claustrophobic or running into roommates or all of those things. So I think this is sort of phase one and there is just,

00:10:34 you know, we're in a little bit of a holding pattern until some of these folks really understand that they need to give individuals the ability to decide whether it's home or someplace else. Hey, I just wanted to jump in really quickly before we continue with our discussion. If you're working on opening a co-working space, I want to invite you to join me for my free masterclass three behind the scenes secrets to opening a coworking space.

00:11:01 If you're working on opening a co-working space, I want to share the three decisions that I've seen successful operators make when they're creating their coworking business. The masterclass is totally free. It's about an hour and include some Q and a. If you'd like to join me, you can register@everythingcoworking.com forward slash masterclass. If you already have a coworking space, I want to make sure you know,

00:11:25 about community manager, university, community manager, university is a training and development platform for community managers. And it can be for owner operators. It has content training resources, templates from day one to general manager. The platform includes many courses that cover the major buckets of the community manager role from community management, operations, sales, and marketing, finance, and leadership.

00:11:54 The content is laid out in a graduated learning path. So the community manager can identify what content is most relevant to them, depending on their experience and kind of jump in from there. We provide a live brand new training every single month for the community manager group. We also host a live Q and a call every single month so that the community managers can work through any challenges that they're having or opportunities get ideas from other community managers build their own peer network.

00:12:25 We also have a private slack group for the group. So if you're interested in learning more, you can go to everything. coworking.com forward slash community manager. The other real challenge is that the real estate holdings of most of these folks have not changed, right? So they're making these decisions and saying, okay, most people are not going to come in every day,

00:12:46 but we still have the same amount of real estate. And that can't change until their leases expire and they can make some shifts in their real estate. So any ability to give, you know, folks who work at home, the choice to go into a coworking space on a stipend would be an incremental cost for the real estate spend for the company. So they're probably just slower to do that.

00:13:09 We see folks who were already working in more of a hybrid structure, embracing, you know, this ability for people to spend outside of the home. So the individuals that are coming in who are corporate folks are probably spending on their own on their own bank account at this point. So that decision still looks differently. That being said again, if you're looking at my screen on YouTube,

00:13:34 we're starting to see evidence of office centric, cultures, leveraging flex and coworking, again, not for the individual, but for teams, remote teams and, and acknowledging the fact that there are distributed folks who are not ever going to come into or not very often going to come into Manhattan or downtown Chicago. So companies like Goldman Sachs and Netflix are engaging some of the online brokers that help folks find space anywhere.

00:14:07 And some of these teams work globally. So Goldman Sachs is working with instant offices, which is globally based out of the UK, but works everywhere. They have offices all over the United States. Netflix has chosen office network to help them with their requirements. So we're starting to see big companies say, okay, we acknowledge, we need to have some spokes,

00:14:28 you know, around that corporate hub. And we have folks that are working remotely and that's not necessarily at home. So they're working with folks like instant offices and office network and P and G is doing the same thing. Procter and gamble is a big consumer packaged goods. They are headquartered in Ohio, but have folks everywhere. They're working with office freedom,

00:14:49 which is a group also based out of the UK, but has offices elsewhere to handle their requirements. And then we talked, we've talked about this a lot, certainly on the podcast, the GSA, the general services administration, part of the U S government, the largest employer in the U S has said, we want to prioritize flexible working. And so they're working with liquid space desk pass,

00:15:13 we work and expansive to fill their requirements. So we'll talk about this in a minute, but this impacts how we think about who we're selling to, and also the channels through which we sell. So the next big bucket that we think about is what you sell. So it used to be, we can sell open spaces. If you're looking at my screen,

00:15:35 I have a picture of this beautiful wooden, very long cafe table with folks sitting on chairs, you know, with their laptops, pretty close to each other. And that really has shifted. And this is one of the struggles that I hear folks every single month talk about. We're still struggling with open space. And on the last episode, I talked about my experience,

00:15:57 joining a coworking space, the open space is empty every time I go in. So in this does depend, I was at gym space in Healdsburg last week, and it was pretty booming. We were there in the morning and there are a number of folks in the open space. He does also have some private offices, but it's really nice dedicated desks.

00:16:18 And so there are folks who are selling dedicated desks and open space, but what we sell, you know, we're just really, really thinking about product. And again, going back to this theme of like the rules of engagement have just changed. And we need to question everything, think about, you know, what you sell, how much flexibility you offer,

00:16:39 how much privacy you offer and what the pricing is, and sort of what your packages look like. This is obviously a challenge for many reasons. So, you know, I said the, then what we used to sell was, you know, more open space. And now we have folks come in who mostly want offices. So individuals that want the micro office,

00:17:01 you know, we were joking. I was visiting an operator in outside of Phoenix in July. And she said, you know, people would come in and ask to rent her phone booths, which were beautiful and looked like small offices. So team offices, you know, I know that that's the team office is always a struggle because people want them. The challenge we have is how big should they be?

00:17:24 Right. So everybody's sitting on that odd number of seats. Teamspace if they have a hard time selling, you know, the 11 person, the seven person, you know, that the demand is out there, it's just a matter of how long. And so that's, those are always challenging, but in general, we're seeing more demand for smaller teamspace.

00:17:43 And again, the bigger theme here is post COVID. All of these small businesses who realized, oh, everybody can operate outside of the office and it works fine. We need to be together sometimes for some things they're really rethinking, you know, that long-term lease. So folks out there who have the five-year leases, and this is another important point, we think a lot about sort of that enterprise user.

00:18:08 And there are lots of enterprise employees. And so that could be a huge source of demand, but most commercial leases, 80% of commercial leases are 5,000 square feet or less. And you may have heard me say this stat before, because I think it's shocking. And we always have to remember that. I think it's hard to remember that most end users are small businesses looking for small amounts of space.

00:18:35 And so coworking is such a great solution for them. If they're, if they don't need the 5,000 square foot space. And so thinking about, you know, especially if you're expanding, what does your expansion look like? What would you do differently post COVID? Would you, would you have some teams suites that are sort of this HQ style, which we'll talk about in a minute,

00:18:56 would you do larger team suites that can be sort of customized? Would you make, do a partnership with your landlord? Maybe not on your course space, but what creative arrangement can you have with your landlord to place smaller groups who are looking for, you know, a thousand square feet, a 2000 square foot space that your landlord might have, that you can service,

00:19:19 but not take on a full lease for. So there's just a lot of creative thinking around, okay, who's coming in and what do they want? But small businesses have the same struggle that our enterprise folks have, which is that they might, some of them are still inactive leases, right? So they're not going to also spend on coworking. They're waiting for their lease to come up.

00:19:39 And then they're saying, that's not what we want anymore. We don't want this full-time commitment. We want something that is more flexible on a month to month basis. And actually I've presented on a panel at the Healdsburg event, the small developer forum for ULI last week. And one of the developers was talking about how they used to have their own space is a team of seven.

00:20:01 And he said, you know, he basically thought coworking was not for somebody who was, you know, it sort of more advanced in his career and successful. And then they started working out of an industrious and had such a great experience in terms of being able to like flex up and flex down what they needed and choose the type of workspace that, you know,

00:20:22 combination of workspaces that fit for their team. That that's what they do now. They only do co-working and then now they're starting to put co-working into their residential buildings. So it takes sort of that mindset shift and also that awareness and a little bit more experience, but that is, you know, that is coming. And that is definitely a result from COVID-19.

00:20:41 And certainly just, you know, the evolution of people understanding they don't have to commit to a long-term lease. And I'll just remind you really quickly think about if you're an operator, it's a big deal to sign a lease, right? You've to some of you put down personal guarantees, you know, whether it's for 2000 square feet or, you know,

00:20:59 30,000 square feet, it's a pretty big deal to make that kind of commitment. And so small businesses would like to avoid that. And so when their leases come up, as they become more aware of coworking and they are, you know, due to COVID-19 and we were going public, a lot of things that are happening that demand will start to show up.

00:21:19 And on my screen, I took a screenshot of a quote that instant offices put on LinkedIn, large flex space is in high demand. So corporates need to act fast because only 2% of the available space can accommodate over a hundred people. So you might be listening and saying, I have zero interest in accommodating a hundred people that may be the case. So,

00:21:43 but I just want to make you aware that those types of requirements are out there. And so if you're thinking about expanding into, you know, HQ type model HQ is, is basically where you create like a mini headquarter for a company and you customize it to their needs, but you are servicing that space. You're acting as the point of contact for their technology needs.

00:22:09 You might have ordered their furniture. You might offer them the coffee service and the meeting rooms and the event space it's in your core co-working space. So that is happening brands like expansive. And I'm sure the hub in Australia, bigger floor plates that can accommodate these types of requirements are getting those. And so, as you're thinking about your business model, make sure you think about what that means for you.

00:22:33 So on my screen, I give examples of canvas by industrious. So they have a whole brand around this offering. They have a on liquid space office suite for 37, which is 2300 square feet. So it says canvas by industry it's, it's a private branded office suite designed for teams of 15 to 100 plus to do their best work with a thoughtful balance of conference collaboration and heads down workspaces canvas brings teams together to deliver on the metrics that matter most to your business.

00:23:04 And I won't read the whole thing. You can see the slides on YouTube, but this is a big trend that I see happening with the more national brands, but it can also be done locally smart suite by expansive office suite for a hundred I'm in Washington, DC, 2,900 square feet, fully equipped, even includes a kitchen ready to host your entire team.

00:23:26 So the then of what we used to sell was hot desk dedicated desk full-time office access to meeting rooms. But today the case is that one size does not fit all. So we like to put memberships kind of in the boxes of look, here's our menu. You can pick a hot desk, a dedicated desk or a full-time office. And each of those gets them access to meeting rooms.

00:23:56 And now we are really rethinking, what do people need from our space? How do they want to interact with our space? And how do we make that fit with our business model, which is the real challenge that folks are still really, you know, trying to work through and figure out what can I offer that meets the end-users need while giving me predictable revenue that helps me sleep at night.

00:24:19 So I posted a screenshot from Greg Smith, the CEO of Thinkific, which I thought was really interesting. He, you know, loves the idea of co-working spaces. And his takeaway is that co-working spaces, mem members, aren't customers, not employees. And so they spaces are specifically designed to give these customers exactly what they want. If you're looking to design an environment that your team will be excited to come to,

00:24:44 it's really, it's simple as asking them, what do you want? And he said, for our team, the answers came down to many of the things that co-working spaces do really well. So he was kind of encouraging other business owners to say, look, if you're going to have your own office space, think about your employees as customers, just like co-working spaces do.

00:25:02 And that is exactly what we're trying to do right now, right. Is figure out, okay, our customer base is shifting, what do they want and how can we serve them? And so the now of what we sell is, is broader than, you know, the buckets we used to try to keep people in. We offer a day office,

00:25:23 a part-time office, a full-time office, a team share office, reservable phone rooms. We allow husband and wives to share offices. We provide a bucket of office hours. We might sell a micro office. We might offer co-working plus office credits. We might offer a part-time membership. So we're really looking at our end users and saying, okay, what do they want?

00:25:48 And what can we reasonably reasonably offer? And that looks different from what we used to offer. So I have an example on my screen that can see on the YouTube version from fueled collective, you can also go to their website and they have the typical, you know, schedule a tour button and you can get information on their plans, but they're really walking you through how their process works today.

00:26:13 When you want to join, which is number one, schedule a visit. So come in for a tour and try out different spaces. Step two is personalize your membership. And it says most people have varying workplace needs. So we tailor space services and programming to meet you where you are. To me, this is like a huge shift. Again, we're not saying,

00:26:34 look, here's our menu, pick one and you know, tour and make sure that makes sense for you. And we'll send you the agreement. It's Hey, come in. We're going to figure out what you need and we're gonna make you an offer. That makes sense for what you're looking for. And on the back, we're going to try to keep,

00:26:53 you know, the number of plans that we create, you know, at a reasonable number, we do not want to go into office R and D or proximity or whatever it may be in have, you know, 170 plans for every single member that we have. That's not what we're trying to do, but we're trying to learn. And we're trying to be flexible and create plans that kind of fit that,

00:27:15 you know, that 80, 20 rule. And then there step three is to get started. But I just love that personalize your membership. It just really indicates a shift in mindset. So pillar, they were on the podcast recently. And I think we talked about this. They are offering day passes plus office days. So they have a pop-up on their website.

00:27:38 They offer the best of both worlds, community membership with access to private office space. And I, every time I see this, I say, I would buy this all day long. It's perfect. So one plan is five day passes. Plus one office day one is five day passes plus four office days and on and on. So they're trying to be flexible and say,

00:27:58 look, we recognize that sometimes open space is fine, and sometimes you need to do 16 zoom calls in a day. We see in terms of what you sell. Again, back to this HQ model, we work announced a partnership with feather, which is actually started as, as a residential furniture provider, but they offer, we work, offers their members,

00:28:22 the ability to customize an office and then get what they, you know, would the types of settings they need, you know, meeting space, collaboration, space, phone booths, whatever it may be from this company, feather basically on demand. So you can customize, you can take, you know, we need space for 30 people and it needs to accomplish these goals.

00:28:42 And, you know, you can customize the layout based on what makes sense for your company culture and the types of settings you need. So ultimate sort of flexibility, both for the end user and for the occupier, because we are sorry, the operator, because we know how hard it is when somebody wants a different furnishing setup than what we have, we have to order it.

00:29:03 It takes a long time to order it. We have to store it. If we're not using it all kind of big challenges, your marketing approach is also shifting. So you, if you listen to the podcast and this is should absolutely not go away, but it's an, and you know, not an, not an or Google. My business is,

00:29:25 has always been the primary organic way for folks to find coworking businesses, right? We're a local business. So people are searching online, you know, coworking near me or coworking in Chicago, or, you know, whatever it may be. They're doing an active search. Your easiest members come through a Google search because they know they want coworking and they just need to come in and see if it's a fit.

00:29:48 And so we talk about your Google. My business listing always needs to be up-to-date. You always need to be getting reviews, all the things that is still the case, because we're still attracting those local folks who are making those decisions. But if you're interested in access to the larger requirements, not necessarily a hundred, it might be four or five or six folks.

00:30:10 The lead, I call them lead, generating partners. Some folks call them lead aggregators. Any of those terms works. The folks that try to become a central place for folks who need space in multiple different locations. So liquid space, you know, has been around for 10 years. Most of us are familiar with liquid space. Desk pass is expanding quickly,

00:30:36 started in Chicago. And it's now in many markets in the U S preferred office network up suite. So it used to be, there were kind of a few coworker.com. There are now many, many, many, many. So if you're looking at my screen on YouTube, you will see a logo screen croissant up flex flex day tenant base, dishonest square foot work,

00:31:04 their office freedom office freedoms also been around for a long time rebranded liquid space desk pass, easy offices, WPS global preferred office network booked with queue instant offices, contour, Hubble meetings, booker.com upsweep co-worker dot com. And I'm sure I've missed some. So there are lots of folks getting into this space. It will take some of them time to generate demand in specific markets,

00:31:33 but they're aggregating those. These are the folks that the bigger companies are working with to meet their requirements on a national or global basis. So if you want some of that business, your best bet is to be listed with many of these folks. The other piece that's shifting about our world, that you want to be thinking about as you expand and we've talked about on the podcast,

00:31:55 a number of times is your real estate structure. So it used to be, we all signed lease agreements. And I still think it's the case that you have to sign the lease for your first location. You have to prove that you know how to run this business, but today the opportunities for creative structures, creative partnerships, working with your landlord and having a joint venture management agreement type relationship is growing much more quickly than before.

00:32:23 COVID-19. And so, as you're thinking about what's changing, and you're probably already thinking about this because we have talked about it a lot on the podcast, but as we have more and more folks go through our management agreement course, I am so excited to see the activity that's happening on a local basis. We have focused in small markets working with typically landlords,

00:32:45 that they already have a relationship with to do something creative. It's still, it takes time. It takes a lot of negotiating. It takes a lot of figuring out what's important to each party and putting that all together. But as you're thinking about, okay, I am interested in, you know, spec suites or offering teams suites and servicing them because we have this great hospitality competency work with your landlord,

00:33:07 consider working with your landlord to help, you know, expand, think about creative possibility is not necessarily signing a lease. Although you also may be in a market where commercial office space is at a discount today. And so signing a lease may make sense, but the point is, we're thinking differently and we're thinking about what's possible in every aspect of the business.

00:33:31 So as we close out 2021 and look forward to more evolution and growth in 2020 to think about these questions, how can you keep your business flexible and adaptable to take advantage of the trends that we're seeing emerge? Who do you best serve, and how will that change heading into 2022? How do you best serve your current and future members? So you're not necessarily saying no to your current membership that you built,

00:33:59 but who might you attract in the future as the market dynamics start to shift, and we get demand from smaller businesses and larger enterprises, and how will you personalize and customize those options and experiences while not totally wrecking your business model and making it really challenging to run this business, how will you shift your marketing approach to attract a new generation of demand? So Google my business,

00:34:21 plus making sure you're listed with the lead aggregators and working with brokers, which is a topic we didn't really cover today. How might you approach your real estate structure differently as you expand to take a more partnership based approach with your landlord? So lots of big picture things to think about. We could talk about a lot of details about what all of this looks like.

00:34:42 We are relaunching our flight group membership in November, December, so we're working on it, but our goal for 2022 is to help folks work through these questions and implement changes in their business. So if you are listening to me, talk about kind of the operator groups that we run and you're thinking, oh, that sounds interesting. Make sure you're on our email list.

00:35:06 And we'll be sharing more information about how you can be a part of those groups as well. So hope this was helpful. And if you want to talk more, join our Facebook group, you can find us on Facebook. We have a Facebook group of about 1800 folks who are pretty active. So we'd love to have you join us there. Hey there,

00:35:23 thanks for sticking with us through the end of the episode, don't forget to subscribe on your favorite podcast player. And if you were enjoying the podcast, please go leave us a review. It helps other folks find the podcast to are thinking about starting a coworking space or already operating a coworking space and are looking to stay up to speed on tips and trends.

00:35:48 And we started a YouTube channel. We'd love to have you catch us on video. You can join us for podcast, videos, and Q and a videos and other things that we post to the channel. We'd love to see.

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