378. A Workspace for the Modern Parent: Leslie M. Bosserman on The Makers Place™, a Child-Friendly Coworking
Resources Mentioned in this Episode:
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Everything Coworking Featured Resources:
Masterclass: 3 Behind-the-Scenes Secrets to Opening a Coworking Space
TRANSCRIPTION
378. A Workspace for the Modern Parent: Leslie M. Bosserman on The Makers Place™, a Child-Friendly Coworking
00:00:00,"Welcome to the Everything Coworking podcast where every week I keep you updated on the latest trends and how to's in coworking. I owned and operated coworking spaces for eight years and then served as the Executive director of the Global Workspace association for five years. And today I work with hundreds of operators and community managers every month, allowing me to bring you thought provoking operator case studies and inspirational interviews with industry thought leaders to help you confidently stay on top of what's important and what you can apply to your own role in the coworking industry."
00:00:44,"Welcome. I am here with Leslie Bosserman. She is the co founder and community manager and many, many other things at the make yes at The Makers Place™ in Sacramento. And she is It's a coworking plus child care, but I'll let you kind of get into the details of exactly what the program looks like. And then I was looking at your LinkedIn and you have an awful lot of roles that are whatever time to the present, multi, passionate we'll call it."
00:01:15,"Right. I'm always impressed with people who can manage multiple businesses at once, so I cannot wait to hear your story. So you're in Sacramento. It's early for us, so thank you for making this happen early. And you're at home, but you have your beautiful coworking space in your background for people watching on video. It's so colorful. And I'll put the link in the show notes, but definitely. Wonderful."
00:01:37,"Yeah, I can't, I can't wait to hear the entire story. Okay, well let's start with, give us a little like backstory because you have such an interesting. The highlight reel. Highlight reel, totally. So I'm a California native from Northern California and I've lived everywhere from. I went to UCLA to actually study broadcast journalism and didn't land in that field. I actually worked in student affairs, managing residence halls professionally and then running student leadership programs."
00:02:07,"I moved to the Midwest to the University of Illinois after getting my master's in education and social justice. So I was teaching, I was facilitating large scale leadership programs. I was running a leadership coaching program at U of I. And it was really interesting to move from like West Los Angeles to Central Illinois. And it really taught me about community and community development. So that was like deeply implanted in my heart."
00:02:32,"And at the time I also was brought into this whole what is professional coaching? So I went back and I got my coaching certification. I finished it in 2012 through the coaches Training Institute and ended up transitioning actually back to the west coast of Portland, Oregon. Where I started my business called Lead with Intention. And I've been doing that for almost 15 years, which just blows my mind."
00:02:55,"So my first entrepreneurial journey. Okay. As an executive leadership coach and organizational trainer, which I'm still doing now. Okay. My now husband, who was single at the time, when I moved to Oregon. I've known my husband since we were eight. He's from Sacramento. Okay. And we actually knew each other growing up through our church community, met at summer camp. Super cute story. For another time. We got married at 27 and I told him I, I love living in Portland."
00:03:24,"If you, if we're doing this, please come and move to Portland. Because I had just landed a big contract with Nike and he's a runner, so that was like incentive. Yeah. So long story shorter. Joel moved up to Portland four weeks after we got married. We got a phone call from a nonprofit in the Middle east asking for a married couple to move to Amman, Jordan for a year."
00:03:47,"And Joel was like, yes, let's do this. And I'm like, we just got married, right. And. But the, the life, explore and adventure in me was like, when else are we going to do this? And so we then moved from the Pacific Northwest to the Middle east for a year, had a grand adventure, volunteered in local schools, worked with a lot of refugee communities, again, learned about a lot of cross cultural community, a lot of service."
00:04:13,"And so all these values are at our core. And then when our project was done, we were like, we're going back to Portland. Except Joel's job was now in Sacramento. So as an entrepreneur who has that kind of digital nomad lifestyle, we moved to Sacramento and we've been here for 10 years. So that's, that's been fun. When we moved a month later, we found out we were pregnant with our first baby."
00:04:38,"And I was like, wow, this is awesome. So I had just joined a coworking space, the Urban Hive. Oh, wow. Yeah. So that was my first, like, sort of. There was this. Oh, this was 10 years ago. So 2014. Okay. Pretty early. I mean, yeah, it was like, we're still early days. It was, it was pretty early. Coworking wasn't widespread. It's still kind of growing in the sense of the word."
00:04:59,"I think I described what is coworking at least a dozen times a week, right? Totally. Yeah. So I joined and I was chatting with one of the co founders, Molly Weber, about like, oh, so you're a mom. What do you do when you have your first baby? With coworking. Right. She said you kind of just stay home because we're not really equipped for this. Most people send their kids to daycare if they come here."
00:05:24,"And I thought, well, I want to raise my kids, but I still have this side hustle over here. That's sort of a professional part time job that I had really intentionally designed around raising a family. But I did stay home. I stayed home for two years and it was really lonely. And I plugged into like library, story time and exercise, mom classes and a bunch of things, but they, they weren't professionally fulfilling."
00:05:49,"And I thought, there has to be a better way. So then we got pregnant again. So it's now 2017. It's like 112 degrees in Sacramento, right? Yes. And it's like, oh, it's so hot. I'm not from here. I'm like eight months pregnant with a 20 month old. And I'm like, how do people get things done? Yeah. And my husband worked for the school district at the time. He's a behavior analyst."
00:06:13,"So he works with children with special needs. And he'd come home from work and he's like, okay, final weeks of pregnancy, what do you need? And I look at him and without a doubt, I look him straight in the eye and I say, I need a coworking space with him. And I just like, it's not what he was expecting. Thinking ice cream, like air conditioning, What? Massage, like, what is this?"
00:06:37,"And he looks at me and he goes, we could do that. Let's do it. And you married the right guy. I. Absolutely, absolutely. Same man who's like, we're moving to Jordan. We're. We're starting a new business tomorrow. Right. But I had three weeks to my due date. But here's the crazy part, and this is how I know it was something that was both propelled by excitement and action, but also we, we took a lot of prayer and planning and strategic thinking that went into this."
00:07:04,"Even in the three weeks. I know it sounds crazy, but we found a property that was dual zoned residential, commercial that would allow us. It was already ADA compliant. That had a big open gap like main gallery area that was like an open living room per se. And then a beautiful open kitchen. And the back area was perfect for childcare and a nap room. And it went straight into the backyard."
00:07:25,"Outdoor space. Yeah. So we put an offer in on the house. Was accepted. I'm sorry. In the same three weeks? In a week. Within a week. We found this property within 48 hours. Because we were like, we don't waste time. Yeah. Because I was like, I'm motivated to do this. So we found this property offer. Within a week. We had an accepted offer. We, we purchased the property."
00:07:48,"So we weren't renting it. Yeah. And we had. Which is even crazier. It don't say like, we, yeah, let's buy a building. We're in industry. Like, he's from a family of entrepreneurs. So, like, he's like, has a band of things. Because he said, what's the worst thing that could happen? And this is. It was kind of a life strategy. He said, if, let's say this concept doesn't have traction."
00:08:12,"And I had been vetting the concept for about six months. Like it had been percolating. Yeah. But he said, what if, what if this is just a bust? What's the worst thing that could happen? We turn it into a rental. It's zoned residential. We could do it. He said, how much would you spend for daycare for two kids and rent in an office space? He goes, that's more than the mortgage on this house."
00:08:35,"Yeah, that. Which is. And I'm just like, okay, exactly, let's do it. And the value of buying, I mean, if you can buy and then make it work, that's a big deal. It was a lot of bootstrapping. It was a lot of, a lot of financial finagling. But we were, we were in a position where we own the property that we live in. And we were able to kind of get a HELOC on that to get the first property sold in."
00:08:57,"We did some strategic things and it was quite a journey, actually. We found out 24 hours after the offer was accepted that the seller's brother had been in a near fatal motorcycle accident. Oh, gosh. And they basically said, hey, we need to break contract. He needs to move. He's from Grass Valley. His house is inaccessible. He needs to move into this home. And we said, he's absolutely welcome to move in the home."
00:09:20,"We don't need to open this business anytime soon. We didn't have like a full on business plan yet. We had just happened. We have a dream. Right. About to have baby number two. I was still pregnant, but. But this is how crazy this was. His brother moved into the home. We stayed in contract. We went through all the steps. So that was. That was June. We closed on the home the day after Thanksgiving."
00:09:43,"Okay. His brother made a full recovery. Yeah. Wow. And that gave us the time market to get numbers to do all the things that you would typically do before purchasing a home. Right. And it was just a lot of things aligning. So okay. And then crazy story. You were able to, you know, sort of do your maternity time and. Yeah, was a lot of website development while breastfeeding."
00:10:09,"It was great. It's like you just do what you do as a mom and you make it work. So totally. It gives your brain. Yeah. I opened my space in Chicago right after my daughter was born and I would take her in as a baby during the construction and I was like, I think I've broken her eardrums. Like, not know, you know, take her in there and Teaching to be really flexible."
00:10:30,"Right. Yeah. Okay. Although it never, I mean, literally never occurred to me, oh, I should do something with childcare since I'm having a baby and opening a coworking space. So tell me, like, I mean, you'd never done childcare before and are you still the director of the program? Yeah. Yeah. So I'm right. Currently I am the director, the community manager of the coworking space. I manage all the memberships, including the ones that we have memberships that are just coworking only for parents who either have childcare other places or they just love being around other parents."
00:11:04,"So that's kind of our main membership draw. We are a community of people who get the struggles and the complexities and the beauty of parenting. We basically say we are your home away from home to give you kind of a space to work. So when working from home isn't working for you anymore. And hang out at The Makers Place™. I know, I love that line. Yeah, it was on your site yesterday."
00:11:24,"Poke it around. It's. That's such a great. It was pre pandemic too. So, you know, I'm not saying I'm prophetic, but. Okay, so. But what made you think like, yeah, I'll just do the child care. I'll do it. That was the main draw. So we in Sacramento, we had over 30 coworking spaces, Beautiful spaces that met abundant needs. You have high tech spaces, you have like the strip mall spaces, we have the coffee shop spaces."
00:11:48,"But there was nothing for parents who, who were seeking community with professional workspace. And because I do a lot of leadership training and development, I'm like, we can take all these hats, so we can take this business development and this entrepreneurial side, this coaching and parenting coaching side. I actually got my minor in applied developmental psychology and education. So I unintentionally, in my last year at ucla, took every single class I needed to be a preschool director."
00:12:17,"No, no plan in this. That's wild. Because I was an RA and I had housing and I Needed units to keep my housing, so. But I never intended to own and run a licensed preschool. The vision and the mission, even when we started, the mission was let's create this beautiful space where people have flexibility and membership. We started with this co op model where parents could come and basically sign up for $100 a month."
00:12:49,"They could get up to 40 hours a week of childcare, which sounds crazy, right? They would basically trade however many hours per week time as a caregiver and they had to be CPR certified and background check, live scanned all the things. Yep. And we supported them in that. And then they traded time and then they got the time on the other side in the coworking space where you watch their children."
00:13:12,"So it's like a slow build, we'll call it. So originally I was the one on site all the time. We were open only 11 to 5 every day. And we started with childcare just Tuesdays and Thursdays because that's the days I had people to help. And then we added on Wednesdays and then we added on Mondays and we added on Fridays. So this was all like the trade system, like put the hours in, no employees."
00:13:35,"Yeah. So for the first. The entire first year, as we were building and kind of building momentum and awareness and it's such a concept that people, people are like, is it a parent participation preschool? Is it a daycare? I'm like, no and no. Like, think of it as instead of going to the gym to work out and do Zumba, you come here and work and do Zoom. Yeah."
00:13:58,"And they're like, oh, and then we'll watch your children. Just like kids club. Except these caregivers have relationships with your children. It's not just drop in any time. They sign up for specific hours and days. So we know who's going to be there. We know their specific needs. We have ratios in play for infants and toddlers, but originally we had like zero to five childcare. We had probably up to 12 kids at a time with two to three caregivers."
00:14:24,"So great ratios. Wait, so if I'm doing a trade and I have a two year old, I could be watching an infant? Yes. Yeah. Okay. So we had a very like organic mixed age model. And then we were really blessed to get a grant. We I. One of the things I do is I write grants. I. I'm a writer. I love it. Another side hustle. I saw so many."
00:14:44,"Yeah. Okay, I'm interrupting for a second. Are you working on starting a coworking space? I often emphasize how important the planning stage is. You've heard me say most unrecoverable happen well before you open your doors. And they are related to the size of your space, your real estate deal and a few other things. If you think you are going to pick your favorite coworking space and reverse engineer what you think you see happening in there and then pick your own paint colors and your favorite furniture, you are in for a surprise."
00:15:26,"This business is really about making the right fundamental decisions that align with your individual personal and financial goals. So we want to help you avoid the mistakes that a lot of operators make in planning and launching that can really set you back in terms of time and finances. So we have got your back. We have created a free training to help you really get behind the three key decisions that we think are the most critical for you to get right when you're designing your coworking business."
00:16:04,"The model, not the colors, the model. And these insights come from years of operating, designing the model for two different locations, and then my work with hundreds of operators as they work on their businesses. So grab your spot in our training class. You can watch it anytime. It's totally on demand. And start your coworking journey with confidence and the right strategies in place. You can grab that training at everything coworking.com"
00:16:35,"forward/masterclass. I just view it as like one more feather in the hat. Right. So I, I wrote a grant through our innovation and economic development. The city of Sacramento has a whole office around that. And we got a hundred thousand dollar grant within the first year of opening which basically allowed us to launch an entrepreneurial incubator program that I did coaching and professional development for members. Launch our preschool program and hire a teacher."
00:17:04,"Yeah. And then do a couple more innovative things. And so it was like really good seed money. We've never done venture capital. We have not said yes to franchising. I can go into that if there's, there's interest. So we really are a community focused business where we say let's look at the greater Sacramento community which has hundreds of thousands of people in the area and how do we serve them, where they're at now and what their needs are now."
00:17:31,"So we, our memberships are super flexible. We offer four hours, up to 40 hours a week of childcare and it's on a quarterly commitment so you don't have to like sign up for a whole year. You confirm your hours for the quarter, you're guaranteed that moving forward unless you tell us that you want to transition. Okay. But then, so the, the trade, the co op model Is the co op model had to pause?"
00:17:55,"Yes. So with the pandemic. So pandemic shifts everything. Right. So when shelter in place came into play, So I had two boys at the time. So March 16, 2020, a day I will never forget. Not only did shelter in place come into play, I found out I was pregnant, so. Oh, boy. I know. Oh, boy. Here we go. Game on. Baby's compliant. Let's do this. But we had launched our preschool program as a part time, like, morning program."
00:18:22,"So we had preschool from 8 to 11, and then our childcare program, completely separate, opened up at 11. So we had him kind of in the same classroom, but they just traded spaces. Yeah. And when the pandemic orders came into play, part time preschool was not considered essential and coworking was not considered safe. So we said, how do we either close temporarily or indefinitely or pivot. And we're."
00:18:49,"We're good at pivoting. So not only did we expand our preschool program to be full day, so we have a lot of essential workers who are first responders and others who we were able to continue to serve. So we actually never closed our doors. Wow. Throughout the whole pandemic, we had a few people coworking who had essential jobs when their offices were closed. We followed all the state regulations and all the health guidelines."
00:19:14,"So it was a lot of. A lot of nuancing, a lot of just being very agile and flexible. And then on top of that, my dreamer of a husband was like, we should expand. And I'm like, we are in a pandemic. Right. But we did. We had about 1,900 square feet in the original building. Okay. And then in 2021, like January, February, he was on a run. He's a runner."
00:19:38,"And he ran up like a half mile and he's like, there's a Victorian house that's about 6,000 square feet, but I don't think anyone's in. I'm going to check it out. And he's an introvert, so this is like, this is a lot. So he actually met the owner walking out of the house on his run and asked him about the property. And the owner said, I'm putting it on the market tomorrow."
00:20:00,"And so Joel's like, can I make you an offer tonight? I can't make this up. So we then entered into a kind of a long term lease to update the house. While we were in escrow, we got an SBA504 loan and we did kind of a 1031 exchange to sell the other property. We had three days where it was, I think it was 4th of July weekend where we literally moved everything over and we didn't have like a week of closure or anything."
00:20:29,"It was like. And we're now here. Wow. With a full day preschool with two classes and a full childcare program with coworking, we tripled our operations. Okay. So. And that was kind of middle of 2021. Okay. And then the main sewer line of the house burst two days later. So it was just like all these things. Is there a warranty for that? There's a plumber to that."
00:20:53,"So one of the things that we, we've learned, Jamie, is you can't predict what happens, but you can be prepared and have like a positive growth mindset to tackle what's in front of you. And I know running a coworking space is one whole business, one whole operation as you, you coach people and you train people. Running a childcare program is a completely separate operation. So I feel like I try to talk people out of doing both at once."
00:21:19,"I think that's wise. Like, so I actually, one of the things, people come to me all the time and they're like, I want to do this. I want to. Are you willing to work for free? Potentially for up to two years? Because I. I thankfully had my coaching income, so I was like, I just need child care so I can keep doing my job. Right. And so you did have your child care covered?"
00:21:41,"I didn't have my child care covered because things were inconsistent and I didn't have family that was very local. My husband had a full time job. Yeah. So I was like, I'll just create the child care that'll save me thousands of dollars a month that'll allow me to keep my coaching clients and then I'll just run the business outside of my handful of clients. And so I was fortunate enough to have that flexibility and the other income to do that and a person who had a full time job."
00:22:05,"So I recognize my privilege. So I'm not negating that. So I'm not saying this is like not a unicorn, but I, I know that everyone's life circumstances are different. So I, I've worked with a number of people across the nation who come to me and they're like, I want to learn how to do this. I'm like, well, I said what I recommend. I said, I'm an executive coach."
00:22:25,"I have a coaching program that helps people understand what it takes to do something like this in your state. Because every state has different guidelines for child care and business. Yep. I said, So I said, I have kind of an inventory. I said, if you want to do some coaching, I said, we have a package for that. I said, I'm not in the business of franchising or model because we want to stay local."
00:22:46,"We want to be in our community. And I can't clone myself. And you can't just take a concept with the same part beat and the same energy and say, oh, I'm going to plant it even. We thought about going like to a neighboring county. And I sat down and said, what's the purpose of this? Said it's to serve the community where we're at in this way. I said I would rather innovate and expand here."
00:23:08,"And the current property we have has a backlot that's completely undeveloped. So stay tuned. And I've had a number of people approach me locally saying I want to start one over here. And I said, We're 20 minutes from there. That could work. But we already have this here. Come and join us here. So I think there's a purpose for franchising. Absolutely. But the childcare component makes it complex."
00:23:32,"And staffing childcare is much different than staffing like a community manager or someone to come and refresh the coffee bar. There's a lot of different licensing requirements for that. So we have our license exempt program. That is the on site child care with coworking. And then we have our fully licensed preschool which are again completely. There are two, Two separate businesses. Yeah. Okay. So the original model, because I know people are listening, thinking, oh, that's interesting, I could do that."
00:24:01,"Does. Is that exempt from guidelines? You mentioned ratios like so it still falls under some. It depends on your state. So I always point people. So if they come to me for coaching or consultation, say check your state child care guidelines. So in California, the Department of Social Services Community care licensing has all of that information on their website. I know currently there is a license exempt status."
00:24:25,"So if you're like caring for your child and one other family in your home as a nanny or something, that's license exempt. Okay. A gym is considered license exempt because the parents stay on site. It has to stay on site. You have to stay on site number one. Unless like one other family. And when I say ratios, we follow all of the Title 24 license ratios because we believe that whether it's license exempt or license ratios are a positive thing."
00:24:54,"And our rations are actually in preschool. 12 to 1 is the ratio. Ours are like 4 to 1, which is an infinite ratio because we, we want people to be supervised and Actually taught, not just kept alive. So. Right. So yeah, I think if you're, if you're listening and you're like, oh, could I do childcare? I always recommend starting with like a parent's night out drop off date night once a month that you hire a babysitter who's CPR certified and you try that out and just see if there's traction."
00:25:23,"We do that for our members that they love that. Yeah. I was going to say totally, totally love that. Yeah. But yeah, ongoing childcare. There, there are various models to do that. Some allow co op. I know California currently doesn't. In the same sense. If you are a space like ours that has employees, you can also have a co op program. So that was something that, when we transitioned to having employees, that was part of the trade off."
00:25:46,"That was really hard because I was like a big part of how we move and really allowed us to launch. Right. I was, well, I was going to say that's what I love about it is you were just like, okay, how can we make this work? This is what will work. One step at a time. That's what we'll do. Yeah. And the big thing is not compromising the mission."
00:26:03,"So a lot of people kind of follow that trail of breadcrumbs and all of a sudden they're on a completely different path and they're like, I don't know where I am. We have stayed so consistent to our core values and our mission. Even though we started a full drop off preschool. I've had so many people say, why don't you get your infant and toddler program licensed? I said because we created a coworking community for this kind of fifth trimester experience."
00:26:28,"Like when you're transitioning back to work even if it's part time or let's say you have your own business at home but you just can't get things done and you're a first time parent and you don't have family or you don't have other parents in your community that get it. I'm like, we do and we're here for you. And we have a whole level. We have four different levels in our current space and one is a dedicated nursery for feeding and bonding, support and naps for parents."
00:26:54,"You have a whole nap level. So we just kind of figure out what people need, give them really good coffee, good local coffee, a nap and some hydration and some really fast wi fi. You can pretty much do anything. So so is the non the pre preschool program for members only, correct? Yeah. So it's not like a drop in. Yeah, it's really to support the community. I mean that's why you were kind of going with like that is."
00:27:20,"That's for the members. We call it a community membership. Like that's the name of it. So it has that at the core. And that again is like four hours a week of childcare all the way to the full 40. But again we're not trying to replace a drop off daycare. That's not the mission. That's not what. And that's not what your members need. They're trying to like 10, 20 hours a week."
00:27:40,"That's kind of what they. And they have a grandparent that might watch their kids one or two days a week. But full time grandparent child care, like don't burn out your totally. Let them do date night and come and hang out with us for two days. Let them have two mornings a week. And then when you get those witching hours at the end of the day, just give them to us."
00:28:00,"We're good. Yeah, got it. Okay. And then so what did make you decide to do the license preschool? When we got the Grant back in 2019. So we applied for the grant and I originally was like, oh, do I want to add one more thing? And we were looking at the community and there weren't very many part day like preschool programs that were mixed age, so 2 to 5 years old that were prior to going into kinder that kind of mimicked that same three hour kindergarten day."
00:28:30,"I really care about that. And my oldest son was just turning two and a half and I was like he would benefit from a more academically structured environment. I love designing curriculum. So I am the preschool director and I have a whole team of. I think we have 12 employees right now. So the goal was to just have that small, more community based program for I think we had up to 15 students in our original license."
00:28:56,"And then when the pandemic decided to join us, joined the party, we expanded in I, we created a larger preschool program and a full day program. And so that's kind of the model. Most preschool programs are kind of a substitute for full time daycare. People need that because they're working full time. So. Right. We still offer the part day program though. A lot of preschools in the area are like full time or nothing because yeah, it's easy for enrollment but we have like a two, three, five day part time morning or afternoon and then two, three, five day full days."
00:29:28,"And so I do like enrollment Tetris. Like a ninja. Yeah. But also staffing, you figured out a way to match. I mean, I think yes, that's the biggest challenge of like really the flexibility, which is what you're offering with the part time and the full time is matching like the supply to the demand. Right. Like, well, how do you make the staffing work and make sure it's not losing money?"
00:29:52,"It is, it is one of the biggest things. And we've made some income trade offs. Like, we could make a lot more money with a lot less staff. Yeah, we could make a lot more money by enrolling a lot more children. I value quality. I want to have relationships with teachers that stay. I believe in developing people into career paths. And again, people don't typically start a childcare program to make a lot of money unless they run it truly like a business without that art."
00:30:19,"Yeah. And that's why a lot of places have closed and have transition leadership. And I'm an owner, operator, licensee, which is so rare. Most people are an owner and then they hire a director and then there's someone else who's the licensee. And I don't necessarily want to be all of these things, but I look at the opportunity and I look at the community we're building and it allows me, honestly, I can be home some days and be with my own kids."
00:30:47,"And we're homeschooling our middle son because he also, he got diagnosed with autism in the middle of the pandemic. So, you know, all these things are happening. He was born with the business. He's the one that I was pregnant with. Okay. And when we realized, like, oh, he has need, and this is actually my husband's wheelhouse. This is what he studied and has his Master's and his BCBA in."
00:31:08,"So with, I think it was 2022, like end of 2022, he took a leave of absence from his school district job and actually started working full time in our preschool when our son Luke was in our preschool. And so now Joel and I work full time in the business together. Oh, wow. Okay. So goodbye. W2 income. No. Yeah, no. But it grew to the point where it supported our family enough and we've made our own financial kind of trade offs in that sense."
00:31:38,"So you have to just kind of figure out what works for your needs and your values and your community. Yeah, well, I love that you've mentioned that a couple of times because I, I, I always start with that too. It sounds like that's your first question when you talk to people. Like what? Like where are sort of what do you need to get out of the business? Right."
00:31:57,"What's important to you, but also like values and financials. Right. And to your point, like a lot of people have to make trade offs and it sounds like you figured out a model that works for, you know, what you need to get out of it. But it's a tough balance. It's tough to figure that out. Balance. And yeah, because we have rental income from properties we invested in at a young age, which isn't necessarily typical."
00:32:22,"And we, I have coaching income and we sold an Airbnb, our primary residence, a hundred days out of the year prior to the pandemic, just so we could travel. So like this is prior to opening The Makers Place™. So like we had all these different revenue streams that brought in different kind of pockets of monies that allowed us to reinvest. But yeah, we also purchased like the current building we have."
00:32:45,"It's 124 year old historic. Wow. So you bet. I looked for more grants. Yeah. With all the things. And we got another sizable grant and we redid the plumbing, the electrical. We just got our window permit yesterday. We got all new H Vacs. So like we've kind of rebuilt this house. While you're in business. Legacy property. Yes. On all the winter breaks and summer, short summer breaks, you just line the contractors up like."
00:33:11,"Okay, yeah, but like I'm a, I'm like a construction project manager on the side as well. So you wear all the hats. But I mean it's, it's a family business. We, we truly love it and we, we can provide a living wage for young professionals who care about young children. And our daughter who was born on Thanksgiving of 2020, her name's Eden Rose, she's now almost four next month and has been in our preschool program because we designed it in a way that's holistic to support."
00:33:41,"So I just, I'm so grateful for all the community support and just all the, the emotional endurance that we have built through this process. Yeah. Wow. Hey there. I'm jumping in again. This time I'm speaking to those of you that are either getting ready to hire a community manager or who have a community manager and you would like to support their training and development. We know how challenging it can be for coworking space operators to create their own training and development material to support their community managers."
00:34:22,"And this is so important in terms of onboarding new community managers and supporting the growth of your existing community managers. And we're getting towards the end of the year. What a great holiday. Gift end of year gift to give to your community manager. So the platform is really around a couple of things. One is access to a community of like minded folks. We have a very active slack group with really wonderful questions that are posed every single day and we find that's one of the biggest values we have community managers from all over the world and this is an excellent group of community managers that have invested time and effort into getting better at that role and they are the kind of folks that you want your community manager to be by and hanging out with and they know their stuff or sometimes they don't and they ask questions and we help them out."
00:35:18,"So I'm in the group. We have coaches that are in the group to support them. So we love when they ask questions for things they need help with because the other aspect of the program is really around helping them get resources they need to make their jobs easier and to learn things that they can use in their role to be better at their job. So we provide some done for you resources like Google business posts, detailed event ideas etc that they can just kind of grab and go and use."
00:35:49,"And we also provide monthly resources that add to our training library so they can do our certification and then we have a lot of electives that help them kind of get better at all the things that that go with the role. So the our community managers wear a lot of hats. So we break our content into industry knowledge for new community managers, Community building operations, sales and marketing and leadership."
00:36:18,"So the leadership bucket is great for our more advanced community managers. We also have virtual office and digital mail training and coffee training for anybody who needs to know how to use commercial coffee brewers. So we have some of the I'm just going to give you kind of a sampling of content that we have. So in our community building modules we have Hosting your first member events Building community with budget friendly events Member event swipe files Our sales and marketing modules we have tour training."
00:36:53,"We have the training on the full coworking sales funnel so they understand what that looks like. We have social media planning frameworks. We have what else do we have? Three simple steps to an effective Marketing newsletter these are just some of our samples. Ooh. These are some of our best utilized topics. Demystifying the process of letting your coworking members use your address for their Google business listing how to close a tour Operations modules How to set up automations how to do a new member onboarding audit simple ways to use AI to boost your productivity we have over 40 courses in the program so we cover kind of higher level topics."
00:37:38,"And then we also cover things that are timely like the CMRA updates, Google business updates, et cetera. So we get together monthly to do official training and we also host a best practice sharing call, which is one of the fan favorites of the group and the Slack group. So if you have any questions at all about the program, don't hesitate to reach out. You can learn more and register at everything coworking.com"
00:38:06,"forward/community manager. Now back to our episode. Okay, so, so, so the employees are all childcare or preschool focused. You run the coworking space. And then yeah, I'm kind of like the HR person of everything and the director. Yeah. And then I have like a lead teacher and other teachers under them with teachers aides. One of the things we do that really helped us. So this might help others who are curious about getting started."
00:38:34,"Because of my background in higher education and my understanding of like supervised field work and education and student internships, I've actually trained over 175 college students since we opened now almost seven years ago. 175 college student interns, people who volunteer, some get course credit, some are paid through city programs and partnerships. But yeah, 170. That's amazing. I know, right? Mind blown a good math, like pressing this, I was like, oh, wow, 6,000 square feet."
00:39:05,"We have what, 12 employees, 175 college students in six, about six years, who then complete their required units so they can go on and be qualified to be employed. So a lot of development. We've hired some of those students on, so it's a nice pipeline for hiring. I've sent them to other centers. I have a good network of directors. But one of the things that was so interesting, Jamie, is I know you are really a key resource for a lot of owners and operators."
00:39:36,"So for me in our business, like the coworking side is like 10%. I know, that's what I mean. For people like you are just making up a whole new model. It's. It's wild. And like I. Everyone's like, oh, are you plugged into the preschool director's network and this network and this network. I'm like, I don't know how many networks I can be involved in. And I love building relationships with people."
00:39:58,"So I think I'm more out of the loop with the trends in coworking, which is why your channel and your resources are so helpful for me. But I am kind of a flagship pioneer in coworking in child care now. Yeah. Exciting. A hundred percent. I mean, I'm just I mean, your. Your background, it's like you were meant to do this. I didn't. You know, like, that's the crazy thing."
00:40:19,"I thought I was going to be Katie Couric, but here originally. Right. And then. I know. Yeah. Oh, it's wild. Yeah. Yeah. But then all the curriculum and, you know, you were an ra, like, all the experience leading up to see you're the director. Okay, so. Well, tell me, because probably other people listening to her, trying to figure out how you do everything you do. Because you're a mom of three."
00:40:41,"I sleep, like, seven to eight hours a night, too. I'm letting you know. Like, I get my sleep. I go on walks. I do yoga. Make it happen. What does a typical day look like? Oh, okay. Oh, a typical week. So one of the things my husband and I do, and I'm going to tie this into developmental psychology. Okay. So when you're about 2 or 3, you do something called parallel play, where you play next to people in the same kind of activities, and you're kind of, like, looking over, like, what are they doing?"
00:41:11,"And then about four or five, you do cooperative play where you're, like, doing things together. So we have to find the balance in who's got the kids, when who's doing the business, when that's the parallel play, we're doing other things, and when do we hang out? Because he's my favorite person, right. He's my business partner, my best friend. He stuck with me. Known him for over 30 years."
00:41:33,"So. Yeah. So one of the things that we do for sanity is, like, he has Monday nights and I have Thursday nights. And that's just the time to do whatever we're doing, that whether that's health and wellness. Like, I'm writing a book right now, which is really exciting. I saw that on your LinkedIn. Okay. Yes. We have to get to that. Okay. Yeah, I'll. I'll share more about that."
00:41:52,"But a typical day would be we. I get up about five to six, depending on when. When the kids are. When the kids arise. And I'll do yoga or go on a walk. We have a little park that I like to walk around. And then I'll get everyone ready for school. And then three days a week, I'm at the coworking space getting everything done. Two days a week, Joel is there."
00:42:13,"So then I have time at home to do coaching or writing, so I really chunk my time. But when I'm at The Makers Place™, part of having a coworking space is being able to use It. And I do have my. My private office. So if I have a coaching client or a parent who needs to take a meeting, I'm able to do that. One of the things I've been really strategic about is having kind of enrollment seasons for our preschool specifically."
00:42:37,"Memberships are just ongoing. If we have an open spot, you just come. I'll schedule a tour. I've been doing a lot more kind of strategy around when people, they can apply online at any point for free. So I pride myself in being, like, very responsive. So I think we get a lot more yeses because I respond with within like 2 to 24 hours. And I typically get them in for a tour within 48 hours just so we catch them where there's a need."
00:43:05,"A lot of people who are directors of childcare centers don't have the bandwidth for that. And I completely respect that. Yeah, I'm in the classroom if somebody is sick or they need a break covered or just to hang out. But I'm not on the floor with the kids as much as I used to be. So that's kind of. I've hired more people, so I'm able to do that."
00:43:24,"But sometimes I'm the one making coffee, Sometimes I'm the one who gets. I get the mail. Right. So, like, that are kind of boring. Right. But things that are a little less typical of our space, that are more typical of traditional coworking spaces, we just have kind of an open hot desk model. We have private meeting rooms that you can rent by the hour, half day or full day for the members or for the public, actually."
00:43:49,"So, like, nonprofits will come in and do like their retreat day or their board meeting during hours. We used to do a lot more event rentals like baby showers and parties. But our current building, because it is historic, is not ADA accessible. So I'm trying to kind of find the balance of how to support event rentals. So that's not really a revenue stream now. So I don't do much of that."
00:44:09,"So that's something that had to, like, pause. Yeah. Although that might also keep you a little more sane. Yeah, it does. It's not something that is. It's not something. It helped us a lot in the old space. It was great because it kind of built awareness of it. Because if you get 50 people in for a baby shower, like, what is this space? So now people know us and they refer us."
00:44:30,"Like, my favorite thing is when someone says, oh, my stylist or my neighbor or my son's 4th grade teacher told me about you. So. Yeah, but I'm digressing from your question. So my typical day, yeah, I'm in the space and then I head out between two and five, depending on who's doing homeschool with our middle son. And we do that kind of at the end of the day."
00:44:54,"So he has his therapy in the morning, so we have the balance there. So I have three kids at three schools, which makes that fun, including our homeschool. Okay. But one of them is with us in preschool. One of them goes to his fourth day class in our middle son. So I mean, it's, it's a dynamic hustle. But I think any, any parent, whether you have one or six, you just figure out what works for your life rhythm."
00:45:16,"And you have to find that the moments of sanity. So, like, I'll pop down and I'll sit on our beautiful wraparound porch with a book and a cup of coffee for 15 minutes to be like, yeah, or if I have a meeting, I'll take a meeting and I'll go on a walk because the neighborhood is all these beautiful historic Victorian homes. Or I'll walk to the library to pick up all the books for preschool."
00:45:38,"So I take a little break that way because the library is a block and a half. Give yourself some thinking time. Okay. You're selling me on Sacramento with the wraparound. Pretty great. Yeah. We're gonna have a cup of coffee and you're gonna fall in love. Totally. Okay, so you're. How do you keep the brain space for the coaching business? Oh, great question. So one of the, the trade offs, I would say is instead of really scaling and growing my coaching business, like most people who do executive coaching full time probably have 20 clients, I have really kept it small."
00:46:10,"I have five clients at a time. Sometimes I'll take on a college student or a single parent if they need more support and do that at a pro bono or reduced rate just because that's my heart. But I really figure out what makes sense for the season I'm in. And most of my clients I coach between like 6 and 12 months. So then there's kind of a cycle."
00:46:30,"But I also do a coaching program. So I do kind of one day retreats and I'll do mastermind sessions for entrepreneurs and incubator programs. So I just kind of figure out in the season what works well. And because our space, we don't have to, I don't have to figure out where am I going to host this, where, yeah, you know, I have a space, what's nice is a lot of people who have the need they could join as a member, have child care when they're in that program and still have childcare to get their work done."
00:46:58,"So really tried to kind of pair what we offer with what I can create. But I've also had to make some very intentional no's or not yets and just say, this is not the season for this because I've already said yes to this and this. So saying no to this would completely derail the other yeses. Yeah. Do you think you'll ever hire another director when your kids kind of age out?"
00:47:23,"Yeah. So that's my dream, Jamie. Okay. I was like, if I could ask questions. Directors, like, I've, we've had, we've had some staff turnover because people go to grad school or get married or had a team member who was in the National Guard and got deployed to do service, which is amazing. Right. So we support each person where they're at. So my, my dream of dreams is to have a protege who's like, I love this."
00:47:48,"I have these skills. I want to grow in this and kind of have them be a part time admin and then a part time, like have the qualifications to be a director and assistant director and then coach them in that. So I can be. I'm 10 minutes. Like my home is 10 minutes from a business. So I can get in the car, get on a scooter, hop over there as needed, but be able to have the flexibility to be a parent."
00:48:11,"Which is so ironic because I started this business because I thought I just need child care. Right. And now childcare isn't the essential component for our family. It's. Yeah, I just need time with my children and my family when they are present. So after school. So I feel like we're, we're finally kind of at that cusp because our team is so strong and we have a really, a really good base."
00:48:35,"But it's been seven, like seven years in January. So it's taken a bit and two properties. So. Yeah. Yeah. Okay. When you started, did you think, I always feel like people start and they're very intimidated. Like they, I mean, you bought your first building, but people think like, oh, five years is forever. I mean, do you feel like, I mean, the pandemic's in the middle of that, so that's probably a tough question."
00:48:59,"It's so like, I want to be the type of person that makes like a five to ten year business plan because that is my personality type and I've never done that. I'm just going to be so honest, like, I've helped businesses do this. What we are kind of zone of geniuses is what are the values that are driving the purpose? Can we strategically grow and scale this so it's sustainable for finances, time, energy, all the three?"
00:49:27,"And then what do we want out of this? And so we'll look six to 12 months ahead and say, what will the property physically need to sustain what we're doing? What does the community need? And then we have kind of seasons of enrollment and seasons of training and some break time. So we build it in. So just like a school year has like summer break. We do run an eight week summer program, but we have two before that starts where we're just closed."
00:49:53,"Okay. The whole space closes. The whole space closes. And that's where we're like, okay, we're building the porch, or okay, we're doing the H Vac or we're traveling. I was gonna say. Or leave town. Yes. So and sometimes we'll leave town and we're like, someone else is building a porch. So I think one of the biggest lessons and growth opportunities for both Joel and myself as co founders and partners and friends and big DIYers was to say, what can we pay someone to do to bless their family and help our business that we are able to pay so we buy our time back?"
00:50:28,"Yeah, right. And yeah, we can pay someone. Shift. Yeah. Yes, completely. And I'm all about, like, if I can make X amount doing this per hour and pay someone half of that to do this thing, doesn't that make sense? And that's why people hire childcare. Right. They can do their job, they can pay for childcare, they help the economy, their children get socialization. But I'm a, I'm a strong believer in figuring out what works for your family's dynamic in this season."
00:50:56,"And that's why when we do enrollment, we do enrollment for quarters or academic years in preschool because it's seasonal. Things change. Yeah. And you're, you're fine with that? Like, right. We, we're flexible so that your members don't have to feel like they're committing to something that's so far over the horizon that, yeah, we don't make them commit to five years. Right. But we commit to being open and staffed."
00:51:19,"Right. And that sometimes means we are the ones staffing. Like, Joel taught preschool for an entire year in the pandemic, because that was the need. I kind of want to meet him now, by the way. I mean, I think he just came Home so I can have him pop on. That's wild. Wait, so do you own the building now or is it still a long term? No, we bought it in 2020, early 2022."
00:51:41,"So we rented it for six months while we were in escrow. And if you've ever done an SBA loan, it's intense. Yeah, yeah, but we bought, I mean, we bought at an amazing time for interest rates and everything. So, like, I look at the timing of things and the sustainability of things. So we personally, as a family, own the business. Our. We have an S corp for our business."
00:52:04,"So the business rents the property from us. So technically the business is the tenant. Right. So, I mean, all of it kind of comes together and works together. Okay. Where I. It's so funny. Everybody at once, you know, a list of questions and I'm like, can I just go? Not going to be a problem. I mean, you've covered a lot of. I use my, my question sounds so, like, you know, I don't know, like textbook sort of when I look at them now."
00:52:36,"Your story is just so fabulous. I mean, you've, you've kind of covered some of my juicier questions. I mean, you live through the pandemic, so I'm not going to ask you. You know, I mean, transitioning out of that has been hard. Yeah. I mean, maybe we'll just wrap with. Because there are so many people who want to do this model. Maybe just like another minute on, you know, what would you suggest people think about if they want to do this model in addition to what you've already shared?"
00:53:03,"Yeah. So I think there's two pathways. I think there are people who already have an existing coworking space that's profitable and people like, have you thought about childcare? So there's that pathway and then there's the. I'm hearing this, could I do this? I don't have a business, but this is really cool. What would that look like? So those are separate. Right. And so for the first, I think most of our listeners are people who already have a coworking space and are like, could I do childcare?"
00:53:30,"So that's where I would start and say, what's the need? Have you pulled your current members? Have you pulled your community? What's your market research like? Because when we started, we asked our community and they're like, oh, if someone did this, I'd come in a heartbeat. None of those people came. Right. And so I love that you said that. I always tell people that. I'm like, did they give you money?"
00:53:49,"Did they give you a deposit? Nothing. Nothing. I literally had these like open house events at local restaurants and coffee shops before we even had the space built. So this is like seven years ago and just said, hey, we're going to do this, this is who we are. And it took probably six to eight months for people to trickle in. But if you already have a membership and maybe you have people that are having their first baby or they're thinking about it and they're like, have you thought about this?"
00:54:17,"Really asking yourself, is this part of our model? Is this part of our mission? Is this already an available resource? Would it pull from a preschool or a daycare that's two minutes away that that'd be more competitive than collaborative. Right. So I look at it as if you're looking at adding childcare as income stream and you already have a profitable business, that might not be the way to go."
00:54:40,"We started with that mission because there was a lack of that in our community and a lack of flexibility. So if you're noticing that in your community and you're like, this is really neat. Also think about like who's going to work here. Because a lot of people branded us from their own mouths the coworking space for moms. We now I think have more dads than moms that work in our space."
00:55:00,"Interesting. There's so much of a transition with remote workers. And because we are minutes from the state capitol, we have a lot of people that have these hybrid work structures where they are in on the office two days a week and they can remote work three days a week. And so it's really nice to have that option. So if you're the child care solution, they might go to an office, but then be a lot of their state childcare programs closed in the pandemic, not reopened, didn't open or just starting to reopen."
00:55:30,"And so I think the. If you're hearing this and you're like, who's my, what's my market? How much will I need to net? Not gross, but how much will I need to net after all my expenses to make it worth it to me? Because that is a hard cost, right? Yeah. And I didn't ask that question when we started. I just was like, I have a need. I'm willing to volunteer to do this because I believe in this and I will see what happens."
00:55:53,"And that's a unique space, right? Yeah. But if you're a stay at home parent and you're like, that's really cool, I could get some really great coffee and Rent a space or have a space and just see what this is like, like you can think about the different elements you want. Like, are you going to do all ages? Are you going to start once they're potty trained? What's your policy with diapers and are parents going to change them or."
00:56:15,"So there's like so many nuances in that as well. So really being intentional on what's the purpose? Is it just to provide childcare while people are coworking or is it an academic program that actually develops and prepares children to go into kindergarten? Or now TK and the whole TK transition in California, that would be a whole separate podcast episode because that has definitely impacted our business, so."
00:56:39,"Oh, interesting. Yeah. And not in a great way, so. Oh. Huh. Because it's more. Because. Because more kids are funneling into it. So any preschool or child care center that served three and a half to four year olds has taken a significant financial hit in California in the last year because of the TK legislation that wasn't intentionally thought through by the government. Yeah, I'll just leave that there."
00:57:02,"Okay. Yes. Okay. If we had more time, that would go into the. What's been hard. Yeah, but that's not. That's like a sidebar of all of this. So I just look at it. If you're interested in childcare and you have a heart for that and you have a love for that, because childcare is hard, parenting your own kids is hard, let alone doing that for other people's kids."
00:57:22,"So you either have to have somebody who you partner with and that is their love and their business savvy. Because you have to have both together and you have to make sure it's legal. So make sure you go on. Yeah. That's all the requirements. Website and make sure you're doing things that are legal. So that's my. And I mean, this is really in the weeds, but outdoor space is often a requirement for."
00:57:44,"Yeah. So in a licensed program and in any program you want in a license program. Yeah, outdoor space is great. You want outdoor space, but that impacts your space search. I mean, if you're starting from scratch, that's a big. Yeah, you definitely need outdoor space. So we bought in the heart of Midtown Sacramento and we turned a concrete parking lot into a kind of adventure playground. So we fenced it in, we put down a whole rubber floor, we built a playground."
00:58:12,"So we had to do that just because kids need fresh air. They need a chance to play and run and have gross motor development. So totally. And then we have outdoor Space for the parents. We have a wraparound porch, so you need to have that ability, so. Nice. Consider with my laptop out on the. On the porch. That's good WI Fi, too. Okay. I could go on all day."
00:58:32,"You have such an interesting background and an interesting business model, but we will let you get on with your day. Thank you for making time to do this. I really appreciate it. I'm flying to Mexico tomorrow, so I had to. Had to wait. Is that fun or work? It's actually both, so. Right. Oh, it's. It's fun because it's with our family and it's. I shouldn't say work. It's a church conference we're going to, so."
00:58:54,"Okay. Yeah. But the whole family's going. Whole family and 600 of our favorite people. Wow. Okay. And the business will go on without you. While you're gone, business will continue. Yes. So. Okay, perfect. That's a good. That's a good place to be. I think that's. Yeah, that's the sweet spot where we're like, yes, we. We can leave for a short period of time. Make sure everything is set up."
00:59:16,"Make sure the coffee delivery is coming. Make sure we got our. Got a little notice that all of our spring water was delivered while we were on this call. Just the little things that are checkboxes, but totally that's. Thank you and enjoy your trip. Thank you. I appreciate it. Thank you for listening to today's episode. If you like what you heard, tell a friend. Hit that subscribe button and leave us a rating and review."
00:59:40,"If you'd like to learn more about our education and coaching programs, head over to everything. Coworking. Com. We'll see you next week."
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