368. Coworking Design with Purpose: Insights from Dorothy Rogers-Bullis and Dan Bullis of Saratoga CoWorks
Resources Mentioned in this Episode:
Everything Coworking Featured Resources:
Masterclass: 3 Behind-the-Scenes Secrets to Opening a Coworking Space
TRANSCRIPTION
368. Coworking Design with Purpose: Insights from Dorothy Rogers-Bullis and Dan Bullis of Saratoga CoWorks
00:00:00,"Welcome to the Everything Coworking podcast where every week I keep you updated on the latest trends and how to's in co working. I owned and operated co working spaces for eight years and then served as the Executive Director of the Global Workspace association for five years. And today I work with hundreds of operators and community managers every month, allowing me to bring you thought provoking operator case studies and inspirational interviews with industry thought leaders to help you confidently stay on top of what's important and what you can apply to your own role in the coworking industry."
00:00:44,"Hey there. I just wanted to jump in with a quick intro to this episode because we kind of dive right in without too much of a preview around. What are we going to talk about today? And just a heads up, we also referenced some visuals that the group is sharing on screen. So I think you'll still get a lot out of the conversation. But if you want to catch the visuals, you can find this episode and all of our episodes on our YouTube channel, which is at Everything Coworking."
00:01:12,"And the link to the channel is also in the show notes which you can easily access on your phone and you can hit that subscribe button. So the theme for today's episode is all about refreshing your coworking space. So at Everything Co Working we work with operators who are launching new spaces as well as those looking to optimize existing existing spaces. Sometimes our clients want to attract members faster, improve their sales funnels and enhance their product to market fit."
00:01:44,"And refreshing a space can be a great cost effective way to accomplish these goals. Sometimes it as simple as letting go of what's not working and making small improvements to create a more monetizable environment. As a matter of fact, Dan and Dorothy share an example. So they own three co working spaces and an interior design company and they shared a case study of an area in their space that was just simply not getting used."
00:02:12,"And so they decided to look at the investment in the furniture that was there and not getting used as a sunk cost and put in something that is more usable and therefore more monetizable for their space. And when I say monetizable, I don't mean, you know, we always have the end user in mind, right? It's really always about the members. But what makes the members happy also makes it easier for us to sell our space and create revenue because the members are getting what they need and they're more than willing to pay and it's easier to attract our members to our space."
00:02:50,"So Dorothy and Dan, our guests today, share some great Examples of refreshing spaces, swapping things out, what to do with things that you have that you don't want to just get rid of. As I mentioned, they have their own three co working space locations in Saratoga Springs under the Saratoga Coworks brand as well as an interior design business. They have been on the podcast before to discuss the Falk built wall systems which we talk about today and which are just a fantastic solution for if you really care about STC rating and not having to do lengthy construction."
00:03:25,"So the wall systems, you have to price them out. Sometimes they're not any more expensive than doing drywall. It depends on a lot of things. But you can get them fast, which means you can start monetizing your space faster. I do want to bring up one important thing about wall systems here, which I think people don't think about a lot. We help people launch spaces and I am always thinking about, okay, what's the free rent period?"
00:03:49,"When does it start, when does it end? And is construction done before their free rent period is over? So sometimes your free rent period only covers construction timing. If you work with Giovanni, then he tries to make it so that you have free rent after your construction period is over. That's super important in terms of giving you ramp up time. So if you've used up your free rent, you are on the hook for rent as soon as the construction is done."
00:04:18,"So you've done some pre sales but you've been waiting for the drywall to be done basically right, waiting for that long construction cycle. And if you use a product like Falkbuilt you get the SDC rating that is great for managing sound in a shared workspace. And you can install these in like 11 days. One of the examples they gave of a co working space they did in Denver, I think they said they put in 40 offices in like 11 days."
00:04:45,"So boom, you are now ready to monetize. Aside from the other work that needs to be done on the space, but the offices are for sure, you know, the lengthy part of the process. So something to think about when you're doing the math on wall systems versus drywall, if it can help you generate cashflow faster and not dip into that working capital budget. And this is the big reason small businesses fail, right?"
00:05:08,"They don't have enough working capital to get through that ramp up period. It could make sense. So consider doing the comparison. So this episode is perfect for you if you're thinking about opening a co working space or if you already have one and you're considering a little refresh Sometimes seasonal updates, especially as winter approaches, can bring new energy to your space and surprise and delight your members. So your space is not a commodity, Right?"
00:05:34,"The. The furniture is not just kind of a side note. It's really part of your brand, and it's part of the hospitality that you bring to the table. Having the perf settings and the. A very, you know, functional but beautiful space is absolutely part of what you're delivering and part of the experience. So don't underestimate how important these choices are and how important it is to update them every once in a while."
00:05:59,"The other nice thing about a refresh is that it's a great opportunity to update your website photos, which, you know, play a key role in attracting new members. So when you think about how members find you, they're usually finding you through organic or paid search. They're hitting a landing page or they're hitting your Google business listing. Fresh photos with great lighting can do wonders for your sales funnel because people are really evalu."
00:06:23,"You know, they are judging the book by the COVID So you want to have a really beautiful space, and you want to have updated photos that have really great lighting and really show off your space. Okay, one more thing before we jump in. I want to give a quick shout out to our mailbox money maker challengers. We've been working hard over the past eight weeks or so with the group on packages, pricing, landing pages, referral, partnerships, and more."
00:06:52,"We're doing reviews, we're getting into the details of all the logistics of managing an efficient mail Service, talking about CMRA challenges for those of you in the U.S. so we're seeing great results and having some fun along the way. At least I am. If you missed this round and want to join us next time, you can get on the waitlist@mailbox challenge.com. all right, we're diving into today's episode."
00:07:21,"Welcome. Okay, we have a small party here, which I'm super excited about. What else would we do on a Tuesday morning? Okay. I'm here with Dorothy Rogers-Bullis and Dan Bullis and Elizabeth La Pierre. Yes. Right. Yes. Okay, so we have a combo of Saratoga CoWorks and. Wait, tell me your business interiors. Drb. DRB Business Interiors. Yeah. Okay. And I will put in the show notes. You've been on the show before, so you're a repeat."
00:07:53,"We were talking about your bulk built walls. Yeah. Super fun. Okay, so, but we have to start with Dan recently did the Kona Iron man, right? Yes, I did a big deal. Okay, so tell us. So it Was the hardest race I've ever done in my entire life. Okay. I feel like the last time I saw you, you just done the easiest race you'd ever done. And you were on the podium and you were having a burger."
00:08:21,"Okay. And then Alcatraz. I know you wouldn't think Alcatraz would be the easiest. I mean, you could get eaten by a shark. Yeah, well, you can get eaten by a shark and Icona, too. Okay. You didn't, so that's good. I didn't. Give us some highlights. Did get stung by jellyfish at the start. Oh, no. It was horrible. I have these sting marks all over my butt still. Multiple."
00:08:48,"Did you know what, after nine days. Yeah. Yeah. His arms were swollen when he got out, but that was, you know, 12 hours later. But he still had to bike, first of all, swim 2.4 miles, then bike 112 and then do a marathon. Right, right. And his arms were still really bad when he finished that night. But it was. It was a nice swim. It was. It was."
00:09:13,"It wasn't a crowded swim. Like, a lot of times you get into these things and it's just. Yeah. So many different people. Yeah. You worried about all over the place and. Yeah. Yeah. And this was, you know, kind of. They. They staggered the start, so it was really good in that regard. But I came out. I came in fifth in the swim in my age group, even after getting stung by jellyfish."
00:09:34,"Did others get stung or were you like. Yeah, yeah, we were there in the water, and guy next to me goes, is anybody else getting stung? Oh, no. Oh, no. Yeah. So I don't know how many people. But I certainly. Right when I dove in, I got stung on my face, my arms. It was crazy. Wow. Had you ever been stung by a jellyfish before? No, I have."
00:09:56,"It's terrible. Yeah. I have not. But I'm kind of a sissy about the idea of it. Yeah. Anytime there might. I'm like, yeah, no, I'm not going in towards an iv. No. Oh, okay. Well, that. That's the same crazy. I know. How does one grow up in upstate New York and play in the world? Yeah. Didn't you live on a farm? Yeah, I did live on a farm."
00:10:21,"I know. I don't. I think we were just careful about it. My brother did walk into a bee's nest, like, in the barn one time, and that was maybe similar. It's not good. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Okay. So he survived. He survived. He did well. And then I got on the bike. I did the best bike I Ever. I've ever done 70, 72 people in my age beat. Beat me."
00:10:45,"So I. I'm like, okay, so. Yeah, but. And you don't know what's going on. 2400 people in the whole race. Yeah. That's a lot. Yeah. So then I got on, got into the run. I was fine under the tent getting ready. I go out and it's. I don't know, I think it was 82 degrees and I have 100% humidity. It was. It was devastating. Oh, boy. When I started running, you know, I was thinking I'd be going 8, 30 miles."
00:11:20,"I was doing 9 minute miles to start, and then by the time I was done, I averaged 11 minutes. Oh, boy. Yeah. Not the plan. Yeah, no, not the plan. I wanted to be at home for cocktail hour. And I was home. It was an hour late. But that's not like drink time. Come on, Dan. My liver's like, Dan, you gotta get off this. Yeah, no, it was pretty exciting, actually."
00:11:48,"I ended up 60th place. Okay. Nice. Out of a lot of people, this is like the Harvard of races. Right. Like, everybody was the best. Yeah. The Europeans were there, the Japanese. Wow. Koreans. Everybody was there. And, you know, the guys that I raced against at Lake Placid that beat me got be soundly. Yeah. Like most of these guys. Yeah. But it was. It's a very, very impressive race."
00:12:21,"Glad I got to do it. Yeah. But, you know, doing these Iron Mans, I always train for the race, but I will never do that again. I will. I will only train for the Ironman in Conan. That's it. Because that's the only one that counts. That's the one that hurts the most. Yeah. And if you train for that, you're ready for anything else. Yeah. Wait, are you going to do it again?"
00:12:45,"Oh, yeah, if I can. Oh, Dorothy. I think Dorothy beforehand was like, this is that we're doing it one time. It's a really big deal. You know, I just got to do it once. Dan is now calling it his practice. Okay. Oh, man. We're back in the saddle now because no more workouts for Dan for a while. Yeah. Well, I can make you. Like, I gotta rest. Yeah, you gotta recover a little bit."
00:13:14,"The body needs. Yeah, exactly. Dorothy needs a little bit of downtime. The meal prep and keeping you, you know, it was fantastic. I couldn't do it without her. Yeah. And I'm done. Great. I'm done for. He's retired. Dan or Elizabeth. Elizabeth. Yeah. It was like a team effort, the whole office. Stan is. Yeah. But Anyway, we're very excited to be here. Thank you. I know. Let's dive in."
00:13:41,"Yes. That's awesome. We are a small but mighty team and we invited Elizabeth because, you know, as you know, co Working has many, many ventures to it. You know, there's so many different ways you can have co working spaces. And us as designers and co working owners, we're able to really dive in and really make spaces amazing depending on who the client is, what they want to focus on."
00:14:11,"You know, some places want to have co working healthcare or beauty spaces, right. So we can go in and design those. There are some places that want to have a women centric place, Right. So that we know of those places. Right. So you design around of what the client, who the client is. Yeah. And we have some examples of some really cool clients of ours locally. You know, we had, and Elizabeth will show you, we had Make a Wish come in and ask us to be in our co working space which was, you know, they could have been in an office just alone."
00:14:45,"But they also wanted to have an opportunity to connect with locals. Right. Because Make a Wish is a group that relies on donations. Right. So they want to be out there and they want to have a public. They need to make those connections, right? Yeah, exactly. So we sat with them. Elizabeth, Dan and I, we sat with the director. And this was the space that we started with."
00:15:14,"It's ugly. It used to. Okay. I was like, okay, I hope this is the before photo. Yes, that's before. And that was a. Believe it or not, that was a film company that did film, right. So they needed their space really dark. So all the lights were blacked out. And then those three windows that you see, they had like pillows stuffed in there. And it was, it was a hot mess."
00:15:39,"Okay. It was awful. So we sat with Jamie from Make a Wish and we, we gave him some ideas. Like, you know, we asked him, what do you want? And he says, I want a really cool space for kids. It's all about the kids. It's all about the kids. It's all about the kids. So we had to. Elizabeth. We sat down and Elizabeth was able to do some floor plans."
00:16:04,"Right. We needed to add some light, right. So you go back to those little short windows there. We were able to add full size windows so that the whole space brightened up and was much brighter. Of course, we got rid of the black and you can see at the top of your screen, that's where the tiny little windows were. And we just added huge windows. Right. And we wanted to keep that sun coming in, the light has to come in."
00:16:29,"So we did glass walls all the way around. And he also, he wanted to make sure that his employees had their own private space. That was very important and soundproof space because they do talk about very sensitive health issues. Yep. And financial issues. Yep. Yeah, then that was important. So those, those glass offices there are silent, which is. Okay. And how do they achieve that? Let's talk about the STC rating."
00:17:01,"The STC rating on the walls is 42, which is, you know, much better than true wall. And then glass we did there. Most of them are side slide doors. In order to get a good. A good STC on the side slide is you have to fill the gas. Right. And so we did that. And then you have to use acrylic glass, which has an acrylic that gets you up to like 40stC."
00:17:36,"Okay. So we could have gone higher than that by putting in insulation in the walls. Yeah. But we really didn't need to. That was enough. Yep. Yeah. He, you know, and then we got into the furniture part. He didn't want to. And this is the fun. This is the fun before pictures. Right. It looks like a hot mess. And it is. I love in progress photos though, because yeah, if you."
00:18:01,"I mean this is part of creating any space is the right. What's the what. What is the. What are you trying to achieve? What does the space need to achieve? And then how do you. There. And this is like the messy middle. Right. And that's the only Sheetrock wall that we put up. See it. Okay. That's it. Everything else was our fault built product for the offices. But that right there is a little kitchen."
00:18:24,"Kitchenette that we put in. And they did not want to change the flooring. They. We suggested carpet tiles. But they wanted to wait and do do it right. First with their budget. And then I always. I say to them, the client, you know, you can always add carpet tiles later when you have the funds. Yeah. So this is the lease. Yes, yes. Yeah, got it. Yep. Yep. But they."
00:18:53,"It was very important for them to have a space that they didn't have to leave in a couple years. So they. They're with us. They're with Saratoga CoWorks for quite some time, which is great. Which. So they. They move out of Saratoga CoWorks into their own space. Is that what their. This project was? Ah, this is actually. So they were upstairs in our co works that you were in Jane."
00:19:19,"And then they moved downstairs into this space. Okay. Still using conference rooms, coming to parties, coming to Events. Yeah. So they're still part of Saratoga CoWorks, but they wanted to be in their own space for privacy reasons. And so they can design it really specifically. And it's obviously a big space. Yep, exactly. This is a really good model for co working spaces because companies want to come back to work."
00:19:45,"They want. They're trying to get their employees back. And what this allows a co working space, like we can go and find space somewhere else, doesn't have to be in our building. And we can give employers that space that they want for 40 employees. Basically have a set up for only 10 people there at a time. Yeah. And they can use our conference rooms and all that stuff all over the city."
00:20:12,"But they also have their own private space. So it allows them to come back to work in phases and it allows them to experiment and at a lower price than, oh, I gotta get 40 people in the space all at once. Yeah, Gonna come into the space. So there's no point in doing that. You're ten at a time. So. But we have that. We've done that two or three times now."
00:20:36,"Is that the real sky in those ceiling tiles? What's going on there? Okay. Why is that? He wanted the kids to feel like they were outside. I mean, it's. It's a little bulky of a space, but it works for the kids. You know, they come in and it's all about them. I actually think that's kind of a cool way to spice up some ceiling. Right? Yeah. No, it isn't neat."
00:21:02,"I've never seen that before. That's neat. Yeah. So then the one. The other thing that's pretty cool is, see the offices, he wanted to have sit to stand desks, an option for his employees. He told them, pick the color of the chair that you wanted the seat, which was fine. Yeah. Totally fun. Yeah. Those fun beanbag chairs he wanted in there. Kids could play on them. Kids like that."
00:21:26,"Yeah, great. Grownups like that too. I want one of those. And then so he was bringing the Vermont, which is in Burlington office, and the Saratoga or Albany office in together. So he wanted to have a mural on that one wall. So we did that. That's Lake Champlain. So that's connecting New York to Vermont by way of. Okay, we have to talk about that. That's on the Falkbuilt walls."
00:21:54,"It's stunning. It's really beautiful, isn't it? We can put anything there. We could put your picture up there. Yeah, yeah. Let's do this thing. Let's put Dan on one. Not me. Dan on the podium. So isn't that fun? You send that. How do you do it? Do you send it to fault Bill and they do it or yes. Yep, yep. And they literally could put anything right. So those are on three different skins."
00:22:18,"And all you have to do, say he wanted to do a fall photo versus something blue. He wanted to have color. We can pull those skins or the faces off and he can keep those for safekeeping for another time. And then we can add another one in three spots on top. It's cool. It's beautiful. Some of. Some people use it for way finding. Some people use it for like."
00:22:41,"Oh, God, yeah, yeah. Which is very. Colleges. Yeah. Colleges and universities, they put, you know, say it's the basketball stadium, they put whatever there, you know, or if it's a healthcare clinic, often they'll put something relaxing, you know, on the walls and in the center picture in the back. That's Elizabeth in the back there. Just want to point that out for you, Elizabeth. Well, sitting with the hat on."
00:23:07,"With our hat on. Very nice. I'm interrupting for a second. Are you working on starting a coworking space? I often emphasize how important the planning stage is. You've heard me say most unrecoverable issues happen well before you open your doors. And they are related to the size of your space, your real estate deal, and a few other things. If you think you are going to pick your favorite co working space and reverse engineer what you think you see happening in there and then pick your own paint colors and your favorite furniture, you are in for a surprise."
00:23:50,"This business is really about making the right fundamental decisions that align with your individual personal and financial goals. So we want to help you avoid the mistakes that a lot of operators make in planning and launching that can really set you back in terms of time and finances. So we have got your back. We have created a free training to help you really get behind the three key decisions that we think are the most critical for you to get right when you're designing your coworking business."
00:24:28,"The model, not the colors, the model. And these insights come from years of operating, designing the model for two different locations, and then my work with hundreds of operators as they work on their businesses. So grab your spot in our training class. You can watch it anytime. It's totally on demand. And start your coworking journey with confidence and the right strategies in place. You can grab that training at everything coworking.com"
00:24:59,"forward/masterclass. I just feel like these walls make the space look so custom. Maybe that's a like a lame word to use, but I mean they're really striking. Any co working space. Yeah. Do anything they want on those walls and change it out. So that was the conversation you and I had had initially was talking about refresh. Yeah. This is a great example. Yeah, that's a perfect example. You could take those panels down and put something else up and it costs very little."
00:25:32,"Yeah, it's minimal and it makes the client or the co working member look like, oh, wow, this space really is progressive. Or you know, they're really interested in what we're doing and. Yeah. Yeah. So it's, it's an, it's a very easy alternative besides adding a pillow or whatever. Okay. Those, they're called skins. Okay, got it. Yeah. They're stunning. Yes. For anybody who's listening and can't see what we're looking at, you have to go to the YouTube channel."
00:26:00,"The link will be in the show notes. Because it's a pretty simple space. I mean the walls. So talk. I mean we're cut. Yes. We're. We are going to talk about refreshing the space which. And I love that topic. But also these wall. This is all furniture, basically. So you, you only put up the one dry wall. You probably refreshed the kitchen area. And then the rest of it is really."
00:26:22,"Is the wall system, which is furniture. Yeah. And. Yeah. And it's days of days for the install. Yeah, it was a few days. That's sad. Yeah. We did. And no dust. Excuse me a second. No dust. Which is so important because the kids. Right. He didn't want any dust. You know, these kids come in and they. Some of them, as you know, are very, very ill. Yeah. So in Colorado."
00:26:47,"In Colorado, 42 offices in 11 days. No punch list. It was incredible. 42 offices in 11 days. Boom. Done. Let's sell them. Let's. Let's get those maybe gas flowing. Yep. That's village cope. Village workshop. I know. I should have Gina on again. Do a little case study on her. Oh yeah, absolutely. Yeah, that would be fun. She's got really cool space. She loves, loves what we did. So we're thrilled."
00:27:18,"Yeah. The. Okay, the L. Are those L shaped sit stand desks? Yes. Wow. You gotta have them. You really need that. People really want to work that way. Right. They want the whole thing to go up. Yeah. They have monitor arms on there now so that, you know. That's a pretty bougie desk though, that. Although. What. How many square feet is that office? Do you know? Oats minute."
00:27:42,"Yeah. I mean she's It's a chair and a file. Yeah. Box. Box. Do you do L shapes in your co. Working space? Offices. You do. Or two desks in each office. That's the new thing. Yeah, that's what we have. That. Don't have that. Like, here. Yes. Regular desks, but. Yeah. Well, anytime we change something out, you do see owls. Okay. Huh. And I guess because it's so narrow, it doesn't require a bigger footprint."
00:28:14,"Like, you're not wasting square footage because it. You know, and. And you know that. That turnaround, or l return, as we call it. It doesn't have to be 24. It could be 18. Okay. Elizabeth, how big are those desks right there? Off the top of my head, I have no idea. I just know the main. I just know the depths of them right now. So it's been like a."
00:28:37,"Like a year. It's been a while. Yeah. More than a year, even. Also, to note there. These right here are marker boards, too, so. Oh, I love it. Like the. You mean the glass or the white panel? The white panel. Okay. That would be my dream come true. Yep. And it's just a panel. You don't have to mount it. I totally. I need you to do my home office, actually."
00:29:01,"There you go. Yeah. But it's so funny. Just one example of make. This was the Make a Wish example. And then we can go to the next slide. This is the space upstairs, which started out all red, and it was. It was awful. And our colors for Saratoga CoWorks are gray and, like, pumpkin orange or Burke orange. We were the client. This is our co working space. So we were very picky because this is what we wanted to show clients and attract co working members."
00:29:42,"So fortunately, we worked well together. There weren't too many hiccups. So if you want to go through that, Elizabeth, for everyone to see. See, the reason why there's no hiccups is because Dorothy and Elizabeth design it. And then I have to deal with all that. You just. You just make it happen. Yeah. They make it happen. Yeah. So once again, those. Oh, here we go. This is our conference room here, which we love because we chose different seating."
00:30:08,"Do you see how that is? Completely. We have these chairs that are not your typical conference room chairs. They're fully upholstered, which makes the sound. It attracts sound. Right. So it encapsulates it. We also warmed it up with a very narrow. That table is extremely narrow by design. And it's a. People take this meeting room all the time. We couldn't even get there Today, because it was reserved for a while."
00:30:35,"Also, we have a. We have a big tv and. Oh, yeah, where that photo is. We have a large television there now. And why did you go with the narrow table? Well, two reasons. One, meetings. Typically, people come with laptops. Right. So there's not a lot of stuff for the table. Right. They don't need much. I didn't want to have any power. They can get power underneath or behind them."
00:30:58,"I just. Aesthetically, I like the way it looks. Yeah. In the table. No, I. I like to design around beauty as well as functionality. There's other ways to get power. Typically, people bring their laptop they don't need to plug in. The meeting is not going to be more than an hour. So sometimes it is, sometimes it is, sometimes there, and right there it's. It works. Everyone sits close together, they get their meeting done, and they move on, you know?"
00:31:29,"Yep. Love it. Added some greenery. Ooh, I like that a lot. This is like a. Well, your hallways are a little wide, but it's. They're wide. Yeah. Which is less efficient if you're trying to optimize monetizable space. But it keeps it quiet, Jamie. Because you're not hearing everyone. Right. So those offices on the left, the glass offices, we opaqued. We put lines across them since those photos. And then on the right, those are drywall."
00:32:02,"And, you know, it's wide, but let me tell you, people have no problem in this space with sound. Yep. And then. Well, it's a good way to sneak in if you do have wide hallways, which some people do. I mean, this is a pre. Existing space. Yes. It's a great way to add in functional soft seating because you've got the tables and the plant. I. I love those plant stands."
00:32:24,"That's. That's really. Yeah. I mean, the. And just a secret. Don't do live plants because it. It doesn't work. Those are fake. Okay. Well, they look fabulous, but it also gives a sense of privacy. It's like these little nook seating areas where you've got, like, the little laptop. And I like how, like, I feel like I could sit there with my laptop, no problem. Like the. Right. And again, since we're talking about refreshing spaces, that's nothing."
00:32:52,"I mean, you put a couple chairs together, you pull a couple tables that pull up a couple plant stands. It's not much. And your clients love it. Yeah. It's accessories, and it makes the space look so much more finished and wild. Yeah. Yep. I feel. Go ahead, Dan. As the space grows, some of this space, like where you see those tables, that's going to be pulled out and we're going to be putting some pods in."
00:33:22,"They're going to be just for meetings, two to four people. You're going to add meeting pods? Yes. Oh, okay. I like it. Okay. Yeah. Well, that's a. I mean, that can fall under our refresh category as well, so. Yes. Okay. What's making you decide to do that? What's driving that? Because people want to have small meetings together. Yeah. They don't need the big boardroom. Correct. Yep. Or it's just a private call."
00:33:53,"They can either go outside and do that. But some people like to sit in a space. And when you look at the telephone booth that's out there these days, it's just too small. And even when somebody's just taking a call, one person, they'd rather be sitting at a table, a sit. To stand, whatever, just sitting there doing their call. And it's completely silent. Yeah. And you're building those."
00:34:20,"You're doing those with the Falk belt walls as well. Yes. And what are the dimensions? Oh, whatever you want. Anything you want. That's what's so nice about them. Yeah. We go build it to suit. Yeah. So you can make it kind of a comfier, one person phone room. Like a little huddle room. Yeah. Right. So that's a great example of you're adding that on because. So you didn't."
00:34:45,"You could wait because of cash flow. Like your make a wish example. Like, okay, you know what? You don't have to do it all at once. It's wait, you have that demand or you have the cash flow. Swap out the lounge furniture, put in the pot, swap about half of it, put in a couple pots, is really flexible. And you can just do it all, like quickly. Yeah."
00:35:03,"And we're finding that. So if you can see in the back of that photo on the right, that's that conference room. And we're finding that not a lot of folks sit at those two little poor top tables. So if that's the case, perfect. We'll just put in those. Those pods right there. And. Perfect. You could do a custom panel on the outside to keep the color. Yeah. So because I love, I know coworking spaces, love like this clean, you know, just like this photo we're looking at like this clean white neutral."
00:35:35,"But the. But adding design elements is what keeps it interesting, I think. Right. It's better than home. So I mean, thinking about, you know, back to the refresh topic. I mean, Dan you said now you're swapping out whatever your, you know, desk size used to be and you're putting in the ones with the return just because you feel like that's the bar, like that's what people, how people want to work and you want to provide that."
00:36:01,"And they, maybe they've got the two screens and they just need the space for that and it sit stand. Right. Yeah. In addition, we're competing. Co working is competing with what you have at home. So it's got to be better. Yeah, right. You got to bring people in. Right. And you know, when we do offices now, refreshing offices, we have to make it better than what they had had before COVID Because a lot of people don't want to come back to the office because it's better at home."
00:36:31,"Whether or not that's the case. Yeah. We just have to make, we have to refresh and that's what we're doing. Yeah, well, and it may not be the case in every market if you've got, you know, if you're in Manhattan and nobody has a home office, slightly lower bar. Right, but. Right, I hear you. I mean, in a market like Saratoga Springs, you know, people have nice home offices and they, but they want to come in because they want that separation or they want community or they want the professionalism."
00:36:57,"But to your point, they, they, you know, bougied up their home office over Covid. And so yours has to be at least as good, if not better. So I think that is an important refresh. And, and you can't, you know, it's, it's probably a little bit more on the margin. Right. To add the desk with the L, you know, a little. A little. And even though these days are, you know, I, I like, you know, having screens on the tables on the desk for people to use."
00:37:25,"But, but it's worth it, right? It. They sell, they'll sell faster. Yeah. I mean, I always, I, I've been to a bunch of these conferences and you know, the GW and I heard some guys, well, furniture is a commodity. And I go, okay, if you say that, that means your space is a commodity. And you can't, you can't look at it that way. You have to really spend a ton of money on the furniture because if you do it right, yeah, you could get really good furniture."
00:37:59,"Awesome looking furniture for the right price, but it's got to look awesome and you have to plan and you have to plan your plan. And that's incredibly functional. Right. That's where Elizabeth and I come in and we plan it so that it doesn't look like the owner bought something from this place and something from that place and this place and then try to put it together and it looks, looks like a garage sale."
00:38:23,"It looks horrible. You can't do that. You have to plan your plan and Elizabeth lays it out dimension wise. And then we review, we review and we plan again. That's how you design. You have to plan properly. Okay, and what is this little room to the side here? Oh, the four tops. You said people don't use those very much. Is that a. Not so much. We're not. We're finding that, at least for us in this space."
00:38:51,"Not so much. Yeah. Okay, well, let's. So you know what, I don't know why my brain was like completely blocking that out when, when Dan was mentioning them. I, I like that room, though, because that could be a nice little off site room or so for some markets. That could be a great product. Oh, for sure. Yeah. But you're finding it's not. Can you talk a little bit about the mindset said?"
00:39:12,"I think maybe because you're in the, you know, you have a furniture and design business, like, it's maybe more comfortable for you to be like, okay, that didn't work. Let's put something else in. Whereas I feel like a lot of space owners are. It's like they're very attached and they will wait a very long time to swap something out. That doesn't work because it is hard to know."
00:39:32,"Right. You're kind of taking an educated guess on your market when you're starting and you have to see, like, what do people use? Like, I look at that and think that's probably kind of a good guess, like I would think, you know. But you're saying like, well, it doesn't get utilized as much as we think. So we're going to put some meeting pods in there. Can you just talk about, like the mindset around that and how you guys think about that?"
00:39:53,"Yeah, so what, what happened with that, Arian, was we put those tables in because we just done all these walls. It's a financial thing as well. And we said, okay, put these tables in. Let's see if that works. And the reason it didn't work is because right down below is one of the best delis in Saratoga Springs. It's called Fat Polly's. It's unbelievable. Delicious. Yeah. And they had all these tables down there."
00:40:20,"So people go down, they get their sandwiches or whatever in there and they have their meetings down there or Whatever. Or. And then they come back upstairs, they go back to work. So that space gets underutilized because of there's just not a good use case for it. So people aren't booking it out to do whatever little off sites or. So that's. So. So the conference room is back there that's packed all the time."
00:40:46,"But the two little four tops, that's like in an open hallway. Oh, it's open. Okay. Yeah, it's completely open. And what I just looked at it looked like in our office. It does look like an office. Look like, you know, kind of an office. Yeah, it's completely open. Yeah. You know, also, I think people don't use it, not only because there's a place downstairs where they go to eat their lunch sometimes, but there's a conference room right next door."
00:41:09,"Yep. So, you know, you're going to have a little meeting. You're going to go do that in a closed and enclosed room or you're going to sit in the really comfy ones in the hallway. Exactly. Yeah, exactly. Yeah, yeah. So, you know, you're like, okay, people are using it. Let's make this more difficult. You know, it's almost like the clothing analogy. If it doesn't look good on you and you haven't worn it, then get rid of it."
00:41:33,"So if nobody's sitting there or using it and it's not making any money. Right. Get rid of it. Yeah. I feel like people get stuck in the sunk cost fallacy. Well, I spent money on that furniture. I'm gonna keep leaving it there, you know. Right, yeah. And we get stuck in that same thing. Like, well, we can't do it just yet. I'm not making any money on it."
00:41:57,"Exactly. You know, Jamie, what's the point? I could bring those into the seating area where we have the kitchen and those would be perfect in there. So. So think about how can you reorganize. Right. Where else? Yeah, repurpose. Yeah, yeah, yeah. And you can also ask your co working members, would you like to have a small table with two chairs in your office? There you go. And some people, like upgrade."
00:42:22,"Right. Another refresh opportunity. Like. Yeah. How can you make an existing office that somebody has even better? Exactly. And people think, oh my gosh, they just gave me this. And you know, this is awesome. And. And you got to realize that you're almost in hospitality industry. Right. So you want to constantly ask, is there anything I can do? How's everything working out here? Yep. People like to hear that."
00:42:46,"They do. They love it. And even an offer. If they're not, even if they're not going to take it, they think, oh, that was so nice of them to ask. Offer that to me. Yeah, that's true. Hey there, I'm jumping in again. This time I'm speaking to those of you that are either getting ready to hire a community manager or who have a community manager and you would like to support their training and development."
00:43:13,"We know how challenging it can be for co working space operators to create their own training and development material to support their community managers. And this is so important in terms of onboarding new community managers and supporting the growth of your existing community managers. And we're getting towards the end of the year. What a great holiday gift. End of year gift to give to your community manager. So the platform is really around a couple of things."
00:43:45,"One is access to a community of like minded folks. We have a very active slack group with really wonderful questions that are posed every single day and we find that's one of the biggest values we have community managers from all over the world. And this is an excellent group of community managers that have invested time and effort into getting better at that role. And they are the kind of folks that you want your community manager to be by and hanging out with and they know their stuff or sometimes they don't and they ask questions and we help them out."
00:44:19,"So I'm in the group. We have coaches that are in the group to support them. So we love when they ask questions for things they need help with because the other aspect of the program is really around helping them get resources they need to make their jobs easier and to learn things that they can use in their role to be better at their job. So we provide some done for you resources like Google business posts, detailed event ideas, et cetera that they can just kind of grab and go and use."
00:44:51,"And we also provide monthly resources that add to our training library so they can do our certification and then we have a lot of electives that help them kind of get better at all the things that go with the role. So our community managers wear a lot of hats. So we break our content into industry knowledge for new community managers, community building, operations, sales and marketing and leadership."
00:45:20,"So the leadership bucket is great for our more advanced community managers. We also have virtual office and digital mail training and coffee training for anybody who needs to know how to use commercial coffee brewers. So we have some of the. I'm just going to give you kind of a sampling of content that we have. So in our community building modules we have hosting Your first member events Building community with budget friendly events."
00:45:48,"Member event swipe files. Our sales and marketing modules. We have tour training. We have the training on the full co working sales funnel so they understand what that looks like. We have social media planning frameworks. We have. What else do we have? Three simple steps to an effective marketing newsletter. These are just some of our samples. Ooh. These are some of our best utilized topics. Demystifying the process of letting your co working members use your address for their Google business listing."
00:46:21,"How to close a tour Operations modules. How to set up automations. How to do a new member onboarding audit. Simple ways to use AI to boost your productivity. We have over 40 courses in the program so we cover kind of higher level topics and then we also cover things that are timely like the CMRA updates, Google business updates, et cetera. So we get together monthly to do official training and we also host a best practice sharing call which is one of the fan favorites of the group and the Slack group."
00:46:58,"So if you have any questions at all about the program, don't hesitate to reach out. You can learn more and register@everythingcoworking.com community manager now back to our episode. Yeah, so we have some other slides too. Okay, go ahead. Yes. Let's move on. Yeah, so that's where we could easily put those that four slides. We could put a table in there. That's our kitchenette, which is great. We have people that work at the bar right there."
00:47:27,"Interestingly enough, they just want to get out of their office and just Totally. Which. Totally fine. Yep, Totally fine. Okay. The kitchen is also falk built, right? It is, yeah. I mean this just fascinates me. All the paneling. Yeah. Recycled plastic bottles. Jamie. Yeah. So for those folks that want something sustainable, that's it right there. That's all custom made, bulk built. Millwork. Millwork. You can do any color, anything."
00:47:59,"I could make it look like marble. Yeah. It's beautiful. It's easy. Yeah, I love it. Yeah. And the countertop seating. Okay, so I do have a specific question about high seating. How often do you do it? I feel like this is one of those things sometimes I, I mean I like it if I'm going to like a coffee shop because the coffee shop doesn't have a sit stand desk for me and I cannot, I cannot sit."
00:48:25,"Dan could probably appreciate this. There's something wrong with my hamstrings. I cannot sit. Forget it. Right. I have to get that addressed. But so I need to be able to stand. So I like the counter height, but I See, people do a lot of like high seating. Some. Like, how do you guys think about the end user? And do you have a sense of like, will people like it for casual spaces like this?"
00:48:48,"But they wouldn't want to sit at a counter height desk all day, would any? They want to sit at a counter desk all day. No way. It's not comfortable. So in Broadway we have, we have bar tables, you know, in front of, in front of windows and things like that. Yeah. And people stand there with their laptop like you do. Yeah, but. Yeah, but that's not their only space."
00:49:14,"No. Then they sit down, they have their private offers, like an occasional space. It's not like. Yes, somebody has a co working membership and that's going to be their seat all day. Because I want to do that. No, never. Now those chairs, it's hard to see, but for women, it's very important that you have a space to put your feet. So they don't dangle. Yes. No dangling. So that's what."
00:49:37,"Those chairs are super cool. Those bar stools. And it's important to have a back and a back that is a little bit flexible and that's what. And it's deep. So a guy can sit in that seat and also be very comfortable. I know these are really important details. Like, those matter. Yes. I was doing a website audit for somebody and they had a photo on their website of one of those like metal stools that are like a face stool that's really popular."
00:50:07,"And I know people do them because they look sort of trendy. And I was like, nobody wants to sit on that. Take them out of the photos. Yeah, no, and in addition, see those chairs, we chose those chairs specifically because I can take a microfiber and just wipe all the crumbs off the back. Right. It's clean, it's slick, it's black, it's. It's awesome. Yeah. We just did upholstered counter chairs in our new kitchen."
00:50:33,"And I'm just waiting for someone. I, I'm like total, like crazy person about stains and spills and spray it. My FX is like, yeah, just spray it to protect it. You'll be fine. We'll put another Sprite coating over it. Yeah, yeah, you'll be good. You'll be fine. Okay. I know, but, yes, these are. But, but all those little details, like where do you put your feet? And the hats have a back and the slight bend is so important."
00:51:01,"And I also, you know, even in photos, these are gorgeous photos and they. I think it's really important because people I think they know, right. When they look at something they have, even if they are not intentionally or explicitly thinking through the details we're talking about, I think they just have this intuitive sense, like, that's comfortable. I could. You know, that's a space I want to sit in or meet in or work in or not."
00:51:29,"Yes. All the. Yes. And back to your example of that trendy stool. You know, it's almost like sitting on a milk can. You know, it's the same concept. You can't sit on that New York reference. We'll take it. Yeah, There you go. Totally. Yes. That's a great. Okay. All right, Elizabeth, let's go to the next one. Okay. So this is just really what we do. You know, we at DRB Business Interiors, we do everything from design, construction, we do corporate work, healthcare work, education work, and of course, hospitality and co working."
00:52:02,"So if there's any questions that your clients have, Jamie, feel free to reach out to us anytime. Yeah, you get really into the. This is. I mean, the. There's a lot of fun in designing a space, and then there's a lot of little details that you really need a professional team to help with. Yes. Yeah, we were. I mean, this is a. This is a minor thing, but yesterday one of our members, our startup school members messaged and was like, okay, do I need to put."
00:52:36,"Do my office signs need to be in Braille? He was looking at, you know, ADA requirements. And so. Because, like, I wonder if you guys do. Do you deal with signage in, like, your settings? Yeah. Permanent. I. So I'd never seen this before. I was like, oh, this is probably something I should be aware of, but, you know, I honestly don't know that answer. So for. The conclusion we came to was that for co working, if they're not permanent, you don't have to do it, but you should do it on restrooms and meeting rooms."
00:53:09,"Yeah. Yeah. Definitely not a local requirement, but for Colorado. Yes. Although. Yeah, anyway. Okay. Yeah, I know. That's good to know. Yeah, that's great. Yeah. So we. We have just found that the co working spaces and the offices that are out there that are up to date, rent quickly. Exactly. I think. I think that's exactly right. And I mean, you're. I spend a lot of time thinking about this."
00:53:35,"You spend a lot of time thinking about this. And I think that's a. Not an easy connection. Maybe, you know, it's like you have to really think through because there's always the trade off on either you don't know and you're not, you know, you don't use a professional to help think through these decisions. Like people who just order their own, you know, furniture or pick their own furniture."
00:53:56,"To your point, it's kind of a hodgepodge, but. Yeah. And there's a lot of co working spaces that do that, Jamie. They just offer the room and tell the client, you can bring your own stuff in. Okay. So can you imagine you as a potential client, seeing all mishmash in every office as you walk by? It's. It's almost like walking by someone's storage unit. And you see this in one and then this in another, and this."
00:54:22,"In our experience, keep it simple and be consistent. Right. So it's your brand. Right. So if you're spending all this money to lease this space or build this space out, it should be consistent to your brand. Right. So if you're going to do, I don't know, red and blue, Everything should coordinate with red and blue throughout your space, including inside your offices. Now, people make them, you know, they customize them."
00:54:52,"Yeah, yeah. Personalize them. Yeah, We. We tell people, you know, we'll give you a light, we'll give you sit to stand. We'll even give you a credenza or a coat closet. You know, you tell us what you want, and then beyond that, we'll even give you a sign on the outside of your door. And besides that, you know, you're on your own. Oh, we give him a chair, too."
00:55:12,"So. Yes. Yeah. And. And you know what? It keeps it simple so that they can just sign the lease right there and move in that afternoon. Yeah. Well, any other. I mean. Yeah, any. This has been a great conversation so far. Any other. Here, I'm going to pull your share off so I can see you more clearly. Wait, can Elizabeth stop sharing? Yeah, Elizabeth, can you stop sharing?"
00:55:36,"There we go. Okay, there we go. Now you're back. Any other refresh thoughts? Like simple things, like, I don't know, like lounge furniture. I would have to think there's something about sort of entryway refresh that is maybe impactful. We. So, you know, every co working space that I've ever been a part of is always thinking about sound. Yeah. There. We just did an office here in Saratoga, and we used a acoustic wall panel not from Falk built."
00:56:10,"It's, you know. Can you pull that up and show them what we did? Yeah, that'd be great. Okay, good. I love the visuals. It was very easy to install for our guys, and it was just beautiful. Came out absolutely beautiful and added to the conference room, added to the reception area into their meeting room. Small meeting room. And it helps with sound. Yep. And, you know, I chose a dark walnut, and their."
00:56:41,"Their logo colors were light blue. So against a walnut background was beautiful. It just made their signage pop. Yep. Elizabeth's probably working through, looking for her examples, trying to find. We'll give her a check. So the pan help with sound. They don't. They don't. They absorb sound. They don't create sound. Privacy. No, it's. It's an NRC rating you're working with. Yeah. So it's. It's basically taking the space that's point 2.3"
00:57:13,"and bringing it up to like a 0.6. Okay. Which allows you to. You're still hearing the person talking in the background. Yep. In a separate conversation from your own. But you can't understand what they're talking. Yeah, it's more affecting your conversation. Yeah. And that's kind of a good spot to be. Yeah. Right, right, right. Especially so people could add those to open spaces. Like more maybe dedicated desk."
00:57:40,"Oh, yeah. But you could put it anywhere. You could do it in the kitchen. That's a lot of. Where the sound comes from is the kitchenette. And if you could put that on the walls, that would really, really help absorb. And you want to absorb the sound. Yeah. I think Elizabeth can't find it. Right. You know, we're building a company. I found it. I found it. There it is."
00:58:02,"Oh, wow. Beautiful. Right? So between. Yeah, yeah. Between those two lights. Yeah. Beautiful. There's the entrance. So we did this for an office. That was a 1983 rendition of gold, green, and red. Okay. And we. And it had a chair rail around it, and it was horrible looking. So if you go out the hallway. That's right. So this is. The client was Boucher Financial. They asked us to just completely use our own design, and that's what we did."
00:58:37,"There's the reception desk. There's the wall in the background. To the left is another reception area. And of course, being a financial services company, sound was very important. So those panels absorb so much as well as the carpet. So they just add on to the wall. Sorry, you just. You just add them. Add them to the wall? Yes. Oh, it's a panel. Oh, interesting. Okay. We kept his chandelier and his fabulous table."
00:59:11,"Like, it was amazing. And then we tricked it out with a contemporary chaise lounge in the corner there. A plant. And then we put that same paneling system in the back. Yeah, that's great. And it just Absorbs so much. That space overlooks Broadway. It's absolutely beautiful. Really nice. Yeah. I love the chase in this. I mean, it just makes it look really high end. So does the thing."
00:59:39,"Yeah. I mean, it's a great way to sort of make the room look more finished and designed. Versus. Yeah. Yeah. And we, you know, we. We work together really well with. With people. You know why? Because we communicate effectively. And, you know, we'll say, do you like this or this? It's like the eye doctor. Do you like this or this or this or that? Or is this one better than that one?"
01:00:00,"And, you know, we don't give people a lot of options because we have really good taste. We know what we're doing. But we do give people choices. Too many choices is hard for people. Right. Because too many is too. Right. Yep. You share that with us. It's just overwhelming. Paradox of choice. Totally. Yep. People get stuck. The Cheesecake Factory menu is too big. So this turned out really, really well."
01:00:25,"And you did this in a couple months? Three months. Five months. A couple months. It was. Wasn't bad. We knocked this out. Fun little project. That's a great way to update because. Right. You could use any sort of colors for. It's. Yeah, that's really nice. It's not construction. It's just like adding. Adding to there. Yeah. And I don't know if you saw the dimension, but it's. It's like."
01:00:52,"They call it like dental. Like, it's. It's like this. Right. And it absorbs the sound. It's not just flat. So the sound comes in and is caught. Yeah. Wait, how. How do you feel about that in, like, a podcast room? That's a good thing to do. I know because I was talking to somebody the other day. I was like, the trick with the podcast rooms is you want them to be pretty soundproof."
01:01:15,"But I don't want, like, everybody does video. Like, we're doing video now. Right. So the room has to be attractive. So I was like, please put those, like, knobby gray. You know what I mean? Like the foamy panels you can buy on Amazon. Yeah, don't do that. I don't want that in my background. Yeah. And you don't want lighting coming down on you. Right. You need lighting coming forward so you look good."
01:01:39,"Right. Like, right now, I have it, of course, coming down on me. But you look great. Still look great, Dorothy. Yeah, I know. I have my ring light on, so. No, that. That would be a great option for podcast room, and you can do that relatively fast. Yep. Yeah. Okay. I love that. Yeah. Okay. Anything. Any other ideas or thoughts or case studies you want to share before we wrap up?"
01:02:04,"No, just refreshing is very important. I think if you want to keep your clients and you don't want them to go to another space, you really do have to put some thought into what your clients are looking for. Yeah, totally. And you're really not going to get that unless you ask. You know, is there anything else you might like here? You know, I mean, even down to the granola bars, for Pete's sake."
01:02:24,"I mean, people want to know that they are being considered. Yeah, that's a good point. I have. Yeah, I'm very particular about my granola bars, too. Funny. No, this has been great. We are. We admire what you do so much, and you're definitely a forward thinker and you have to be. And that's where we feel like we're very progressive in what we do because we know how people work and we know how people don't work well."
01:02:55,"Right? Yeah, exactly. That's a great way to put it. Well, thank you for sharing because I learned from you guys. So it's been great to see your space. And Dorothy's in our secret operator mastermind, so we get to hang out with Dorothy. We have a call this Thursday, actually, so. Right. Yeah. Love it. And Elizabeth, thanks for hanging out with us. Thank you so much. Elizabeth did all those drawings."
01:03:14,"Yeah, Elizabeth did all those drawings. Very talented. Thank you. Girl, too. I know. Love it. Great. All right. And thank you guys. Until next time. Thank you. Thank you so much. Jamie, thank you for listening to today's episode. If you like what you heard, tell a friend. Hit that subscribe button and leave us a rating and review. If you'd like to learn more about our education and coaching programs, head over to everything coworking dot com."
01:03:44,"We'll see you next week."
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