283. Peter Chee, Founder of Coworking Brand Thinkspace, on Getting Perspective
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283. Peter Chee, Founder of Coworking Brand Thinkspace, on Getting Perspective
00:00:02 Welcome to the Everything Coworking podcast, where every week I keep you updated on the latest trends and how-tos in Coworking. I owned and operated Coworking spaces for eight years and then served as the executive director of the Global Workspace Association for five years. And today I work with hundreds of operators and community managers every month, allowing me to bring you thought-provoking operator case studies and inspirational interviews with industry thought leaders to help you confidently stay on top of what's important and what you can apply to your own role in the Coworking industry.
00:00:45 Welcome to the Everything Coworking Podcast. This is your host Jamie Russo. And I have a cold and I have mostly lost my voice. I don't think this has literally ever happened to me in the many, many years that I have been podcasting. I almost never lose my voice and I had recorded a fantastic intro to this episode on Friday, and then my editor emailed me and said that it was garbled.
00:01:12 So I have to record it again with no voice. So I'll try to keep this fairly short. You're gonna love this interview with Peter Chee. Peter has two locations in Seattle and Redmond, Washington. He's just, I mean, a super fun personality. He's one of those people you meet and he's just like really compelling. He's a happy guy. He's really interesting.
00:01:36 I just really enjoy people who don't follow the typical pattern of life. You know, I think that I do, my Enneagram three likes to do what everybody else does, and so I totally admire people who take a different path. So I love to hear people's stories. Peter did something really unique this year. He did a three-month experiment. He bought a one-way plane ticket for an entire month,
00:02:02 no, for three months. And he just stayed for as long as he wanted to stay. He was working, he was working at a co-working space. In the middle of this, he drove to Chicago and ran a marathon and he just said he was, you know, thinking a lot about his business and what was next. You'll hear that he's,
00:02:20 he's been in co-working for a long time. 2008 he launched Thinkspace, which was early, early days in a building that he built with his dad. And he's working on another really interesting business. So you'll hear him talk about that. He was at Juicy. If any of you were juicy, he was there. He may have spoken. I did not meet him.
00:02:39 I met Peter at the GWA conference. I met him at a dinner and then we did a workout Thursday morning, I think after everyone had been out karaoke a little bit too late. And he just had the most awesome attitude. He's a runner, so I'm not sure. He thought it was very much fun, the sort of boot bootcampy CrossFit style workout we were doing.
00:03:01 But he totally played along and we had a blast. So you're gonna love hearing Peter's story. And he's a building owner, so I always love to hear you know about that model. Although he leases his second location, he relies on his team a lot to run the business and he's working on another company altogether, which I also think is an important perspective for folks to think about because it's pretty hard with a single location to make a living and Coworking.
00:03:27 And so you can do Coworking and do other things and I might encourage that you do that so that you have, don't put all your eggs in one basket. Okay, before we dive into Peter, it is the end of the year. And if you are looking for a fantastic gift for your fantastic Community Manager, please consider gifting her a membership to Community Manager University.
00:03:50 So the first thing she's going to do is get certified as a co-working community. Community. Manager, sorry. And that certification will go on her LinkedIn profile, she'll get a certificate for it. And I think it's a, just a fantastic kind of indicator of commitment to the role. And our certified folks love to get it. And then she will have access to a really in-depth library of content under operations,
00:04:18 sales and marketing, industry knowledge, community building and more. We do two live calls every month. One is a q and a call, one is a live training event. So she gets to know other community managers or he, and we have a really active Slack group and the community managers in the Slack group are awesome. They're super responsive. If you have any sort of question,
00:04:41 it's like an insurance policy. It's such a fantastic program because most co-working brands just don't have the resources to, to build out their own onboarding and training program. We can't do every single thing that you do, but there's just a tremendous amount of knowledge and perspective and like just in time resources as your community managers, you know, need ideas or need to solve problems or,
00:05:06 or work through something. So it's a great group, fantastic resource. He or she will be thrilled to be a part of that. It's both professional development and I think a really great retention tool and an easy gift idea. So you can enroll at Everything Coworking dot com slash Community Manager. You can get all the details there. There's no minimum commitment.
00:05:28 So you can gift this. And once your Community Manager has gotten the experience they want to get, there's no long-term commitment for you. So take a look, Everything Coworking dot com slash Community. Manager here is our interview with Peter Chee. Okay. I am sitting here with Peter Chee, who is in his Coworking space in Seattle, Washington for the first time in two months.
00:05:55 And I was just asking Peter, why is that? And he had a very interesting response and I said, hold on, let me hit record. So Peter, thank you for joining me. Lovely to be here. And yeah, thanks for coming into the office. Is that a, what are you drinking? I'm having some coffee. Is that like a caption a latte?
00:06:15 Yeah, that was gonna say that looks just like my own tall, like double walled glass that I drink out of every morning. Morning. My favorite Cup. It's noon for you already though. Yeah, but I live in Seattle, so I drink coffee like, you know, All the time. Yeah, I have this, I can't seem to tolerate a very much caffeine so I can have one like double shot cappuccino and it's always so good that I want another one and then I try another one and it's just,
00:06:46 I can't do it. It's not like I can't even get through it. It's super unfortunate because it's like my favorite thing of the day. Maybe it's my favorite thing of the day, cuz I can only have one. That's A good thing. So that's it. There's also lots of other good hot drinks out there too That I know. You're totally right.
00:07:01 Yeah. Okay, so tell me about the last two months. So you're, you own a Coworking space, but you just told me you gave yourself permission to wander a bit. So Yes. So Here with everyone, I'm on a three month experiment right now and I just concluded the, the second month of it. So my experiment is being able to work from any place in the United States and also not have any,
00:07:31 I guess, pressure to like need to move anywhere or leave one city. So my first month was about buying one way plane tickets. And so I went from Seattle to Austin and then I went to Dallas, then I was in Frisco for the GWA conference, right. And then I flew to New York and I hung out in New York for a little while and then I flew back to Seattle for like two days to get my dog and my car.
00:07:56 And then I started driving and I jumped on I 90 and I started going across to Chicago and you know, just passing through all these different states that I'd never been in and stopping at any national park that was along the way or within, you know, an hour or two of the freeway. And then, you know, I bought starlink internet so that I,
00:08:16 I could make sure I was able to work from the road or work from any place. Yep. Cause I, you know, that's kind of critical. So Does it work kind of anywhere? Did you do Run? It wasn't a trip wasn't like a vacation was a, I wanna be able to work and have the full flexibility of being able to work from anywhere and I don't want to get stuck somewhere in some of those places where there's no internet.
00:08:37 Right. So I signed up for the startling thing and then, you know, the thing that I found in the first month, the one way plane ticket piece of it was actually super fascinating for me because, you know, I didn't have the pressure of a another plane ticket that I had to go jump onto. And you know, I was just enjoying the conversations,
00:08:56 enjoying the people that I was meeting with and I just wanted to stay in flow of how it felt. And then when it was time to go, I was like, okay, get another plane ticket and where am I going? So I ended up in places that I didn't expect myself to really hang out in. And then also I got to stay in lots of great places that were really unplanned.
00:09:16 Then I met with a ton of people at GWA and a lot of 'em have offices in New York, like I'm gonna New York. So, and I just, such a great time, you know, talking with these other people and seeing how they run their Coworking spaces and I got to work from their spaces and just see how things are done in a different way.
00:09:38 And it was super innovative and recharging for me and bringing me to a place where I'm, I'm looking at my own think space in a different way because I'm seeing and you know, sitting inside the spaces that these other people are running, not just hearing them talk about it on stage Right. At a conference or whatever. Yep. It's actually, you could so much more when you sit there and you feel everything inside the space.
00:10:03 And then this last month, you know, the road trip piece of it was like, I didn't know if I was heading east, west, south. Wait, wait. But you had to swing through Chicago to run a marathon, right? Oh yes. I mean that was like the one thing in my calendar that was a date that I was like,
00:10:20 you know what, I'm definitely gonna need to get out to Chicago by a certain date. So there was a destination, there was a date there, right. But then the rest of it was just kind of, you know, go where I felt like I wanted to go. And there's people that I hadn't seen in a really long time and if they were within five hours of a drive,
00:10:37 I'm like, that's close enough, I'm gonna go see them. And they were like super excited and happy to see me and you know, to re I guess re-energize those old friendships that you haven't seen in a long time. And so that was fantastic. And then, you know, being in big cities and you know, I went out to 25 North,
00:10:56 I was trying to find Mara and Megan and apparently they don't work outta their own spaces all the time. Right. And I I didn't know that They're like you. Exactly. They have a ton of locations everywhere too. So that was another piece of it was like, oh, I guess they're not just hanging out inside their own spaces, but, you know,
00:11:12 being able to see their spaces and see the energy and how full they were, that was awesome. Like there's just some Coworking spaces that have that energy and they, they're definitely doing something right when you know, you can feel the energy and plus it's, you know, post pandemic ish Right. And people are getting back in there and they've got lots of people roaming around.
00:11:35 So I thought that was really fun. And Suburbs are hot, Peter Apparently. So, yes. Especially Out in Chicago. And, and then I went out to Bond Collective in Schlomo locations. I hung out in a whole bunch of his places. Had you been to a Bond before? I did in New York. I went to a whole, whole bunch of them out there.
00:11:53 Yep. Causes in Brooklyn and then Midtown and, yep. Had you been before this trip though? No, I had only seen photos and his website and yeah. And Shlomo, I've talked with him quite a bit at the last Q conferences and such a great time with him. But I was like, I'm gonna go hang out in some of his spaces and he's got such a great touch and feel for,
00:12:13 you know, his entire team's awesome. And you know, they do such a great job putting together their spaces and their approach towards hospitality is fantastic too. So, you know, there's just pieces and things that I see in these spaces that give it so much energy and make it fun to be working out of. So I was like, this is great.
00:12:32 I, I love hanging out in lots of different places. Then I went to some small little places too that never heard of and it was mostly like I Google Coworking and then a city name and then Right. See what articles come up to the top and then I just, I'm like, am I within a few miles or so? And I'm like going and then,
00:12:49 you know, I'll pay, there's $30 or whatever it is to Yeah. Sit in their space and I wanna support 'em too. I don't want a free ride free tour kind of thing. Right. It's like, no, these people are running companies and they wanna make money or they need to make money and, and so being able to run around support some of them or pretty awesome.
00:13:08 And then I went to this one place in Traverse City 20 fathoms and it was so interesting to see this like vibrant Startup community in Traverse City. And then I bumped into some guy that happened to be from Seattle and he just relocated and we were talking and it was great. You know, just the connections and this, I guess that serendipity of like meeting random people and you know,
00:13:32 realizing that you have lots in common with them is, is pretty neat. So, and then I guess, you know, coming back to the road trip thing, I, I routed myself through 19 states and then I ended up down after leaving Michigan, went to Kentucky, Tennessee, and then Okay Alabama. And I was like, these are places I've never been in.
00:13:53 And the whole time I'm sitting there I'm like, I've got sweet home Alabama on re one or I mean on repeat, right? I was like driving through the state thinking like this is gonna be awesome, right? And then I was like, this is really not my place. But then I was like, you know what, I'm gonna keep going south.
00:14:11 And I ended up at the Gulf of Mexico. Wow. And I was like, you know what I'm gonna hang out at on the these white sandy beaches down here and there's a place called Dolphin Island. It's fantastic if you've never been there. I think it's perfect for a place where if you want some quiet on a beach and $140 per night to have a house,
00:14:32 that is the ultimate place. And I think it's a little secret. So that was Awesome. Although after all that driving, did you really need more quiet time? Oh yes. Okay. I Didn't wanna be packing up and getting, you know, packing a dog in a car and all your stuff and you know, unloading, you know that that,
00:14:51 that I was just getting tired. Yeah. Getting tired That after 32 days of that I was ready to just kind of reground myself. Oops. Apparently the lights are off. Hold on here. Environmentally friendly lights. Exactly. And so I think the driving part is actually awesome because I feel like it's basically driving meditation. Yeah. And I was just sitting there in my thoughts most of the time,
00:15:17 right? And it's not interrupted by anybody else's thoughts, no one else's perspectives. And so honestly it gave me a massive amount of clarity. So I've never done anything like this where I've been on away for so long and just also have that freedom to be able to go in any direction that's not normal for me. I like, I'm very much a routine oriented person.
00:15:39 Ooh, that's so funny. Yeah. And I decided to break everything and, and what's great is that I feel like I have a like a blank piece of paper right now and I get to recreate things the way I guess feeling that is best or how it's best aligned for me now versus like how I've created these structures and things in the past for,
00:16:00 you know, they were great for that period of time. So, hi, This is Josh Fried CEO of Proximity. When we started Proximity, we did it for one reason. We didn't like how hard it was to run our Coworking spaces. At first we tried testing different space management software on the market and look, we found that we had to use multiple software solutions then we spent way too much time trying to sync them all together.
00:16:23 And then we spent even more time training our staff and worse yet our members on how to use this overcomplicated solution. We ended up going circles, attempting to manage our software instead of letting software do what it's supposed to, which is help run our business. Our members were frustrated, we were frustrated, we just didn't think it should be so hard to operate a Coworking space.
00:16:46 So we built our own solution to make Coworking spaces easier to manage all packaged up in one easy to use platform refined by feedback from hundreds of Coworking spaces over the last five years. Proximity software is simple for operators and best of all members and it is backed by our award-winning US-based customer support team. It's time to stop settling for overcomplicated software, get software that was actually purpose-built for Coworking by Coworking Space operators.
00:17:16 See it for yourself. Our team is available to chat with Everything Coworking podcast listeners and you can schedule your call today at Proximity Space slash Jamie. So my last month is really, really about getting grounded in the things that I'm aligned with and it doesn't mean I'm not gonna jump out on the road again, but I might be a little bit, but there's definitely certain places that I know I would repeat visit and there's places I would never ever go back,
00:17:45 but, Well it's good to eliminate, you know, the options. So did you, you made your way back in your car with your dog from Florida On the Gulf Coast Dolphin Island? Yeah. I went into Texas, I stayed in Texas for quite a while. Texas is actually quite a wonderful place. I, I have all these like preconceived stigma things in my head about different places along the whole entire country and I,
00:18:11 what I found out was that these people out here everywhere are awesome and there's just wonderful humans. Yeah. No matter where you go and if you just peel back some of the stuff that's being played in the media, I didn't have any news. It was staying away from the news and I was just like, you know what, it's just like great humans.
00:18:28 I wanna be around really awesome humans and Texas has a lot of 'em. And I spent some time out in San Antonio and Dallas and Houston, Galveston and then I made my way out and ended up routing myself through Utah and Utah's beautiful like one of my kids So much. Yeah, I'm sure you stopped and did the Zion's there right. And the arches and yeah.
00:18:54 Lots of good stuff. Yeah, I could go back. There's definitely a place I could spend a lot more time in, so Yes. Anyway, there's my travels, I love it. So you know, it's, it's funny, I am also totally, I think about this sometimes like, like when I'm like psychoanalyzing myself, like I'm very also routine based and even when I travel I try to like smoosh my routine into wherever I am.
00:19:17 I have to work out in the morning. I'm sure you have to go for your run and then I have to have my cappuccino and I have to like, you know, I have my things and I, I like to do it that way but I, you know, sometimes I'm like, yeah my two kind of prescribed, it's an interesting but I guess you know,
00:19:34 personalities are just like that. I'm not sure I'm changeable at this at this stage but I, you know, it would be interesting to to do what you did. And sometimes when I'm on vacation, like I, yeah, I smoosh myself into and I think I need to be maybe a little more flexible. Hmm. Yeah maybe. Maybe. And I love the car meditation.
00:19:52 I sometimes, so my daughter is just turned 11 and she used to sit in the backseat like for a long, like we go to Tahoe a lot cuz we're in the Bay area and she would like have something to say you know, and she like interrupt me and it was like interrupting my thought meditation and get like annoyed like wait, no, I was like in the middle of something that you can't see in my head.
00:20:14 Driving is super good for that. Okay, so take me back to like early Peter, you went to M I t, which is not probably very typical for a co-working space owner. So I wanna get a little bit of your professional journey here. So m i t and then what? Oh, so And where were you? Were you born in the United States?
00:20:35 Where? Born in Seattle? Yeah. You were born in Seattle. Okay. Yeah. And then, So I've been in Seattle basically my whole life. I was away for one year in Taipei, Taiwan. But Okay. Besides that I've been in Seattle and I love Seattle. I think it's a great city. I also kind of was exploring the rest of the entire United States trying to figure out if I were to live anywhere else,
00:20:56 where would I go? Yeah. So I'm still not feeling like there's any one place I would wanna live all the time. So I think I'm probably more likely a person to be somebody that would go somewhere for like months at a time somewhere and then move somewhere else for months at a time. Or like maybe multi-home based kind of person. I think that's kind of what feels right right now as far as like,
00:21:21 you know, rewinding me back all the way back. Yeah I, I went to University of Washington first and Okay, yep. Degree in business and Information Systems. I worked for a technology company that was a Startup. Paul Allen had a company called STARWAVe and that's the mid nineties and they were just launching e s, espn, abc, Disney, all these mega media website.
00:21:44 Ah, this was the birth of the internet. Like it was fantastic. Right. Totally Super innovative. It was an exciting time to be working and I think it was probably one of the best times I've ever had working for any other kind of company. It was just super fun. Like I couldn't even believe they were paying me money to do it,
00:22:03 but I was doing so, you know, database engineering work was what I was working on and I just loved it. And I think honestly think space, kind of the reason why I started up think Space was I was thinking about after I left Tech, I was thinking about running a different kind of business and I had built the building Think spaces in right now in Redmond and built it with my father and it's 40,000 square feet and we had leased it out to a whole bunch of other kinds of companies and then as the leases start to you know,
00:22:36 come I guess mature you, you decide whether or not you wanna re-lease it to those companies or do you want to do something different? Yeah. And I, this was back in 2000, probably 2007, 2006 even. And you know, as the leases were getting closer I was like what would I do if I were to run a different kind of company And I was working from home at that point and I hated it.
00:23:00 So it was part of it was like I need to be around other people and I also want to be around people that are doing awesome technology cuz that's the space that I love being in. Yeah. Okay. And I went and visited all these different business centers all over the place and there was a bunch of Regis's and Premieres and Yeah, You were early.
00:23:20 You were early, early. I don't know if I've, I mean I don't even think Jerome Chang opened that early. He might have been right around that time Blank spaces cuz he's one of the early, but yeah, there was not much happening back then in terms of Coworking because oh six was like kind of the first very early incarnations of things that didn't look like Regis.
00:23:42 Exactly, yes. And yeah, Jerome was definitely one of the first out there too. And so I was visiting all those places and I was like, you know what, there's like obviously a business model that works here. Yeah. This industry has been around for 50 years so it's like, okay, let's explore this a little further. And the thing that I couldn't find was something that fit me and I'm all about tech and what's,
00:24:06 you know, on the bleeding edge and I wanna be around that kind of energy as like if I could recreate some of that energy from STARWAVe being in that Startup space and do it inside this building and do it with that kind of model, then I think that's what I would want to do. Like that's what success would be like for me. Yeah.
00:24:25 So in 2008 launched things space and then that, you know, massive recession. Well right. Perfect. And that was incredible, like unbelievable timing, right? Six months into it. Well yeah, what did it, I mean, so you owned the building so that's positive unlike all the folks in Covid that had to, so you have a mortgage on the building presumably,
00:24:48 but at least it's not your landlord who's, I don't know, bank landlord. Maybe the same. Same. But yeah, was it, did it empty out? What did it look like? So at the time, you know, we were probably about, I don't know, 60% full. Yeah. And six months into it, not bad and then the recession hits and I was like going,
00:25:10 oh my gosh, this is really scary. And at that point I was actually in a program through, it's called the Entrepreneur Organization and M I t, they have this joint program for entrepreneurs. And so it's a three year long program. I'd fly out to Boston and I remember sitting inside the classroom and we were all kind of freaked out, this is recession,
00:25:31 I was sitting and this one of the professors said, you know what, you guys are smaller companies and this is a massive recession, but it's like, what do you really need every single month? Would two new customers be enough for you guys to like be able to get through it if you, you could just get two new customers. And that's what kind of made me pause a little bit and not freak out cuz I was like,
00:25:53 I can go pick up the phone and get two new right that is not going to kill me. And then the other piece of it was like, I was sitting there and I was looking at, you know, all those bigger shared office environments, business centers and whatnot. And I was, look man, those people are just given massive concession right now,
00:26:10 six months, free rent, whatever. I mean they were just throwing all kinds of stuff at. And I was like, that's a race to the bottom. So I did not actually lower any of my pricing through the recession. And the thing I focused in on was like, well how do I make sure that things space stands out in is different than what's going on out there.
00:26:29 And the thing that I focused in on was like, it is not about the walls, it is all about the community of our space. And at in 2008 they had community managers for tech companies. They did not have community managers for Coworking or shared office environments. I actually unfortunately had to let a couple of my employees go and rehire and get Community Manager minded people.
00:26:52 And yeah, so I hired somebody that was Just, oh, like a totally new concept to your point, like community for physical spaces, not just like for a so well social would've been really early back then too, but Yeah, yeah. Like, you know, Twitter was just kind of coming on board. Yeah, yeah. Social media was really,
00:27:08 really brand new at that point. And so there was a, you know, a lot of new tech, a lot of new platforms, a lot of new ways of connecting. It was super exciting. I thought it was, it was great for the small companies and it allowed us to be super fast and nimble and I didn't even care if, you know other companies that are huge have that,
00:27:28 you know, massive marketing budget. I was like, yeah, I, I am gonna out-maneuver everybody out. And I did and I, I was somehow was able to build a waiting list during the recession and get the space to be completely full. Right. And it was fantastic. I mean it was not just me, it's my team, right?
00:27:48 It's the people that I hired that were fantastic with people and connecting. And so that's always been a part of the DNA of think space is that we are incredible people at connecting other people. And so we just continue to carry that forward. Hey, I just wanted to jump in really quickly before we continue with our discussion. If you're working on opening a Coworking space,
00:28:09 I wanna invite you to join me for my free masterclass. Three behind the Scene Secrets to Opening a Coworking Space. If you're working on opening a Coworking space. I wanna share the three decisions that I've seen successful operators make when they're creating their Coworking business. The masterclass is totally free, it's about an hour and includes some q and a. If you'd like to join me,
00:28:32 you can register at Everything Coworking dot com slash masterclass. If you already have a Coworking space, I wanna make sure you know about Community Manager University Community Manager University is a training and development platform for community managers and it can be for owner operators. It has content training resources, templates from day one to general manager. The platform includes many courses that cover the major buckets of the Community Manager role from community management operations,
00:29:05 sales and marketing, finance and leadership. The content is laid out in a graduated learning path, so the Community Manager can identify what content is most relevant to them depending on their experience and kind of jump in from there. We provide a live brand new training every single month for the Community Manager group. We also host a live q and a call every single month so that the Community Manager can work through any challenges that they're having or opportunities get ideas from other community managers,
00:29:37 build their own peer network. We also have a private Slack group for the group. So if you're interested in learning more, you can go to Everything Coworking dot com slash Community Manager. So did you convert all 40,000 feet to Coworking in Flex or do some of it still traditional tenants. So 20,000 is think space and then 20,000 is traditional office space. And I think that's probably one of the coolest things about running the entire building that way is because these small companies,
00:30:12 they grow, right? So we had one company, it was super incredible actually. So we've had companies that have exited out of think space for like 2.9 billion or you know, 40 million or getting acquired by Microsoft or Cisco or you know, Google or whatever, right? And then there was this one company inside our space that HBO go and it was like two guys had left Microsoft and they were inside Think space and they were like,
00:30:41 we're working on something really cool. And I was like, cool, what is it? And they're like, we can't tell you right now. But anyway, so HBO go launched out of think space. Oh. And there's this like crazy stuff going on and I was like, this is incredible. And these companies that you know, are really tiny and small,
00:30:58 they eventually need Yeah. More space. And so the easiest thing is to just stay inside the building. Yeah. Take over more space. So I wasn't even using brokers, so it was all about just, you know, Natural, organic, you know, movement within the building. It still is. And so, you know, there's companies that have been in there for as long as things space have been around,
00:31:23 they're still there and we're able to support 'em and, and keep 'em inside here. And then some of them have just gone on to like, you know, take on a hundred thousand square feet of space themselves, right? And you're just so happy to see that kind of growth and you're part of it and you're just feeling like, wow, we,
00:31:39 You're in a unique market where that can happen. So my space here was in Palo Alto and the mistake I made was not like I moved here and opened it. So I didn't know, I didn't understand the market at all. And we had a similar thing. People would show up, they'd be working on some sort of undercover thing and then, you know,
00:31:58 there'd be like four of them and then they would need to lots more space and we didn't have it. So there was nowhere for them to go. But that was a very common thing, right? They'd have an investment, you know, a series, whatever. And then they'd hit their milestone and then they'd go for another round and they need more people and they'd be like,
00:32:15 we just want like the same thing, we want like the same furniture. And I was like, I know I can't help you. I, all I have is a lease for this much space. So it's interesting how markets are so different, right? And you're in a really unique market. I would've if I, yes, had only known it would've been a great model.
00:32:31 But also owning the building is a great model. So you've got kind of the the combo going there. But yeah, it's interesting. So is it mostly tech or what, what does your membership look like? So, you know, in our Redmond location it's a, a lot of mixed kind of companies over there. Boy I'm sitting in the darkest,
00:32:51 Those lights are like, you're not moving enough, The lights to stop going off. I'm sorry. So yeah, so a lot of it is tech. And that's kind of the one thing that I noticed a lot about what we were attracting. And so when we launched our Seattle location, our go-to-market strategy was totally different. Thank goodness. You know,
00:33:11 it's like you learn all these different things along the way over the years, right? And you start realizing there's different ways to do things. And what we did was we limited the number of service-based companies to five and then the rest of the space had to be tech. Okay. And it was just the way we wanted to approach it. We wanted to build a hub of technology kinds of companies are,
00:33:33 were focused on tech, they're great companies, the service-based companies are great too. You need to have some in there. I just didn't want to get overrun by all of the service-based businesses. And so it allowed us to actually create demand for the service-based space. And it also was like a great marketing thing for all of the tech-based companies. Yeah. And I've always been one of those kind of guys that focused in on what's happening now or what's coming up in the future here that is,
00:34:04 you know, I guess like a paradigm shift or is it something that's revolutionary. And so when we launched the Seattle space, we were focused a lot on Bitcoin and we had, you know, at Bitcoin VC and Stuff. What, what year was this? This was 2018. Okay. And it was just kind of the birth of all that kind of energy.
00:34:24 Yep. And it was like, okay, we're going after all these kinds of companies right now and it just gives us an ability to target companies that we really want go after. Right. It's like, I think it's really ha I mean, you know this way better than I know I'm kind of stumbling my way through the marketing aspects of things and I kinda like,
00:34:43 well you know, I can't really target everybody. I gotta target somebody and it's easier for me to just kind of go after something. And so I, I like to I guess hunt and kill in a very specific manner and, and then also I like being around those kinds of people that are doing innovative things and I'm like I, That's where you get your energy.
00:35:01 I'm sure people you're probably not, probably don't get super involved in giving tours and whatnot, but if people know you lend to the vibe because you are part of the brand to some extent I would guess. I love the tours. I wish I could do all the tours. I would like meet all the people, but yeah, I can't. And I have other people that are fortunately better at doing tours than me too,
00:35:26 so. So what is the real estate model for the second location? Oh, so these other locations that I have started, I started another one in Fremont, Seattle and then I started this one Lake Union. Both of these have been leases and so that is definitely a different way to operate. And the pandemic absolutely was brutal. Like I could go into gross detail if you would like Happy we all cry,
00:35:58 we never been. Yeah, no, no one wants to relive those couple of years. Yeah, We got through it though and we're at a hundred percent right now so I know we're doing something right and Across the board. So you have three locations, is that right? I closed up the second location when we opened up the third location because they were within a few miles of each other and yeah,
00:36:22 the other one was like a lot smaller and I just felt like, you know what, we're just gonna shut that one down. So how big is the third location? 20,000 square feet. Okay, so both, you're, so the two open locations are both 20,000? Yeah. Okay, got it. It's a great number. What does your mix look like between like offices and open space?
00:36:42 You know, I would say revenue wise it's probably 90, I dunno, a little over 90% is coming in from office. Yeah. And, And then the other revenue is mostly virtual office actually. So we have Coworking, but the Coworking revenue is actually quite small and it is inconsistent and it's, I have to still think this part through a little bit further in terms of like how much space or how to put the space in there that allows for the open desk side of things.
00:37:19 But you know, the things that everybody loves is having a private office. Honestly they like having the ability to close the door and have a conversation with, you know, for sales calls or you know, be on a called raising money or you know, there's, we allow people to paint the walls in their offices and give it their own vibe and it's just like that's not happening out in the Coworking area,
00:37:43 right? It's, it's open desk people gives you the full flexibility. And I have used it clearly the last two months Around All over the place and I've enjoyed that. But in terms of the reliable revenue side of it for me and at least this market here has been much more stable to have those office leases. So do you run into startups that say,
00:38:10 yeah, we can't afford the office space. Like is that a kind of a gap in what you provide or? Absolutely. Yeah. If there's people that will come by and they'll say, Hey, you know, I want an office for 400 bucks, right? And I give them the name of like three other places that we can go to because,
00:38:25 But they're just not a fitness, I'm Not even gonna go there and I'm not gonna try to appeal to these companies That, but what if you had like, yeah. Dedicated desks or Coworking, would they take, take it or do they only want an office? Some of them take it. Yeah, I'll take the, the flex space so they can move into something more private.
00:38:44 Yeah. Yeah. So I think that's one thing that we have done differently than a lot of these other places and I think we attract mature entrepreneurs. Yeah. Well and there's a lot to be said for that model, Peter, mature entrepreneurs who can pay the bills and who stay for a long time. Great. Cuz to your point, the, the flex is,
00:39:06 you know, you called it inconsistent. It comes in like in trickles it's hard to build up and it's hard to make it a huge percentage of your, well it could be a large percentage of your revenue if you don't have a lot of office space, but it's hard to make meaningful revenue out of Flex. Although I'm curious, did you see any Coworking spaces on your travels that were just like killing it on Flex?
00:39:27 Well, 25 North definitely They have In there that isn't really, they got some secret boss stuff going on, I think. Yeah. And so that one felt awesome. Bomb Collective in Brooklyn was just incredible and there's a lot of energy inside there. I love that location. Yeah, it, It was awesome. Yeah, there's, there's definitely a few that I,
00:39:49 I stepped into and the 20 fathoms and Traverse City was like tons of people. I like, this is crazy. So yeah, there was some, it Feels a little secret saucy yet to your point. You know, we, you were at the conference, did you see Mars, and I'm totally blanking on her name. They have a head of culture.
00:40:06 Did you see the session where, oh, what is her name? She has a unique name. I'm totally blanking on it. It'll, it'll come to me Anyway, they work really hard at it and I think that's part of their, a little bit of their secret sauce. You know, they focus a lot on culture and how their team interacts and I think they,
00:40:24 maybe because of that attract, you know, more flex folks cuz they have a pretty balanced like floor plan. So, but 20,000 feet of offices is a good way to run a business too. Yeah. Yeah. I think culture definitely does matter, you know, as we certainly stand apart from the different places out there and I think a lot of the people that would come by and tour things space,
00:40:47 they're like, yeah, we're definitely moving in here. You guys feel like you attract people that are really serious about running their companies. Yeah. And so we don't, and it's nothing against beer on tap, but we don't do that here. Yep. And I, not that I wouldn't want to have, you know, a happy hour cuz we will do that,
00:41:05 but having it on tap is just kind of sends a different signal I guess. And I know my brain doesn't get, isn't sharp. Right. Not quite when I'm Like having a beer Right. Or having totally beer. So I know in the workplace it's like, yeah, I wanna get stuff done, you know, I wanna be one of those guys having a conversation with somebody in,
00:41:26 you know, at the, in front of the, the kitchen area and talking about how, you know, we're pulling in 250,000 thousand dollars a month and there's just two of us sitting in this little office down here right now that gets me freaking excited. Get me freaking charged up. Like, I can't believe this is happening in here. Right. Makes me wanna go back and start crushing it on what I'm working on.
00:41:47 So, So do you miss the tech, do you do anything in tech still or not Besides investing in different tech companies? I am, I guess well think Space is not inside the tech space really. Right? I mean we're, we're kind of, we make sure the technology works in here and it's Part of the ecosystem of, but It's, it's not,
00:42:07 not my focus for, for Think space anyway. But I am running another company right now too. So that's where my energy is going towards and it's an aerospace company so I kind of am in a totally different kind of thing right now too. Okay, okay. How do you accomplish that? Who do you, what does your team look like so that you can focus on this aerospace company?
00:42:30 So What does my team look like here? I've got a, who's In the business beside you? Yeah, like who's at the location? Anybody else sort of on the leadership team? You know, that is something that I miss a lot. I wish I had all that around me and I don't. It's something that I, I guess at this point and where I'm at and how I'm running things,
00:42:53 I try my best to stay engaged with my location managers. They're basically like the Community Manager location manager type role inside here. And then we have another front desk person as well. And that's, and then I've outsourced all the back office to other managed service companies and I used to have this kind of stuff on staff and then I, the pandemic hit and I,
00:43:17 I started shifting everything and then I realized I can actually run this thing smoother in a different way. And so I haven't re I guess hired for those different time types of rules. And then also, you know, at one point I really wanted to think space to become a national brand. And I don't know if it was just because of the energy that was going around from,
00:43:41 you know, those giant companies that were raising bazillions of dollars and I was like feeling like, am I missing out on something here? And then I was always being compared to some other company, you know, we're not gonna name the names but I'm like, like I was here before them, so No, totally. You were Way before. Yeah.
00:44:01 But anyway, there's some of that kind of comparison stuff that was going on and it made me feel like maybe I should be, but then, you know what, I got real clear on like what I wanted and I'm like, no I don't. And I didn't want to go raise millions of dollars or billions of dollars to go turn things based into this national brand.
00:44:16 I think it's got a great name, but I also know what I want to do and I, where I wanna put my energy. Yeah. And I think that's kind of what's important. So I'm trying to make sure that I'm just staying aligned inside that I love that. Who handles like kind of the more strategic like branding, you know, marketing,
00:44:35 I love your website. Sometimes I look at websites and they have like no soul and I get good vibes from your website, which is not that easy to do. So I totally get it for people who don't have the vibe. But is that you or is that someone on your team? So I was one of those technology guys and I'm gonna just build everything myself.
00:44:53 So that's where, where things Based diy, all the things I DIY eyed, everything I could possibly do. And then I realized, you know what, there are people way better at things than me. And it's like, I'm like, I love graphic design and I like, I love Adobe Illustrator, but you know what? I stopped doing it finally cuz I was like,
00:45:13 you know what, there are people that do this way better and they're faster than me and I, I should just pay for this kind of stuff. So I've moved towards hiring other companies to help me work on stuff and they can get it done faster and they make it better. And then it also allows me to not have to touch everything or run all the updates.
00:45:31 You know, it Just totally Wait, There's, there's, I feel like I learned a lot by stepping into these things and being able to do some of these things, but honestly I just do recognize talent around me that is the way better at it things. And I would rather much rather hire in the long run. You save so much more money Totally.
00:45:53 Than screwing around trying to do stuff yourself for like, if you lose six months, that's a lot of time. It's just like A lot of Time. That's not the experiment I wanna be trying to do right now. Right now it's all about hiring the right people or a company or you know, consultants or whatever to help me get stuff done and,
00:46:16 and trust 'em to do a great job. So. Yep. It sounds like you're trying to simplify and maybe even make some of it a little more variable. When you have everything internally, you're kind of stuck with fixed costs, which during the pandemic is hard, right? So when you can pull in and out, I am heavy user of Upwork and find like amazing talent.
00:46:35 Have you used Upwork for any of your I Used Upwork. It's a like a talent platform you can find literally. I mean I've hired people to do research, I've hired people, I have my podcast editors from there or VAs from there, my designers on there. Like everybody's there. It's incredible, like the range of talent and it's like a review.
00:46:59 It's like Amazon for freelancers. So everybody's reviewed, they've got a portfolio, so it's really transparent. Anyway, That's fascinating. So wait, can you tell us about this aerospace project or is it, what do they call it when it's like undercover, Stealth, Stealth? Are you in stealth Mode? I forgot that term. Totally. I'd have people come into my space and be like,
00:47:21 no, I cannot tell you what we're doing. It's a stealth mode and we need an office because no one can see our screens. You know, one learned in, in life over the many years now of running think space and people saying that they're in stealth mode. I've realized that, you know what if I told you what I was doing and you wanted to like try to emulate or copy what I'm doing,
00:47:43 good luck. The purpose and the passion and the energy and the knowledge and everything else that goes into like creating something, it's so unique. Most people also just give up. Right? I think a lot of humans just stop before when it gets hard. Yeah, yeah. And because they're not driven by the same thing, right? Yeah. So for me,
00:48:06 I'm happy to share what I'm working on and if you wanna create a competing company against me, excuse me, I need to hit and stop. I think competition is healthy. So let's, let's make sure there's a marketplace here. So my company is minimum zero is based off of my father's patent. He was working in aerospace for 30 years and he was trying to solve us one problem,
00:48:34 never solved it, but he resolved it after he retired. And so in 2019 he got a, like his 13th patent and I was helping him on the business side of this thing. And basically it's, it's a way of melting ice off of the leading edge of an airplane wing or the cow of an engine. Anyway, it, it's ice forming on an airplane when it's above 10,000 feet.
00:48:58 And the technology is completely revolutionary for the aerospace industry and it can reduce an airplane's weight by 300 pounds and it's like, it could possibly save an airline, you know, tens of millions of dollars annually by implementing this technology. Yeah. And the technology that they currently use on airplanes is like 80 years old, hasn't changed at all. And so anyway,
00:49:22 it's, this is what we're trying to bring to the world right now and get it on an airplane. So my father passed away two years ago and you know, during, right towards the end of 2020. And so I've been holding onto this thing and I think one of the things that's been super interesting for me is that, and it was part of this road trip actually,
00:49:40 I got super clear on like, what was going on there? Am I doing this for my father or am I doing this for myself? Yeah. You know, and or am I doing this for other people or is this for the planet? Like what is the, the real purpose behind all of this stuff? And I went out to NASA Johnson Space Center out in Houston and I started walking around,
00:50:01 there's like this giant space shuttle sitting there, right? There are these huge rockets from SpaceX and they're like trying, you know, to put man back on the moon again in 2025. And I was sitting there and I'm like, I'm sitting on this technology that is just revolutionary and it can make such a massive impact by reducing carbon emissions by trillions of pounds.
00:50:22 And I'm like, I gotta put my energy behind this thing. This is something that's really impactful. So I'm trying to get myself p positioned right now to be able to put my energy in, you know, fully behind that. Yeah. And so that's, that's what's going on with that. Wow, that's incredible. That's very cool. And not common for shared space owners,
00:50:46 but I do, I would guess that the energy, you know, like you mentioned earlier in the space, we, you've got a lot of innovative in innovators and entrepreneurs and there's probably a little bit of like, yeah, I got some of that left. Let's do it. I do have a lot of that left in me. Yeah. Yeah.
00:51:04 So doing things that have never been done before is kind of like, yeah, let's go do it. Why not? And this is all just a big journey anyway. Right. So I think there's a couple books that I've been plowing through over the last month here and one of them is stories I only Tell My Friends by Rob Lowe. I don't know if you've heard of that one.
00:51:27 And then the other one is called Green Lights by Matthew McConaughey. Oh yes, I, you know what, I started to listen to it. I didn't finish it. I have to say my husband finished it and I can't remember why. He tells a lot of like really hard stories and I think, I don't know, do you love it? Yeah.
00:51:43 You know what? I think I'm in that phase of life where I can really appreciate the hardness of life and also realize that it doesn't matter who you are, you're going through it. Right. It's just how you get through it. And one of the quotes that I remember sticking in my head was like, you gotta follow your heart, but let go of the outcomes.
00:52:04 Like, don't worry about how it actually plays out. And I was like, you know what, that's totally right because it's like, for me, I would think I was so attached to outcomes in the past and that's probably why I've run 20 marathons. That's probably why I've gone Totally, Yes. You know, Ironman events or you know, I just put these monster kind of like things out there with like very clearly defined finish lines.
00:52:31 Yeah. And I kind of wanna shift that right now and make sure that I'm focused in on that journey and who I'm bringing along with me on those journeys. It's like, it's really about who you're around, right? It's like I wanna be around great people. Yeah. So like honestly, I was sitting there at these last two Coworking conferences and I was like having the time of my life,
00:52:53 like I was hanging out. I did with you, you were fantastic at Oh wait, but Right, we didn't, didn't get to talk about the crazy like mail hike thing that you did. Oh, the mailbox P Pike. Yeah. So I met Schlomo through email and then, you know, we rallied up a bunch of people to go do some crazy thing because it was partly because of him,
00:53:15 because, you know, I asked him a question and I was like, so you wanna go on a hike on a scale of one to 10, how hard do you want it? And he was like, 10 of course. And I was like, when? Ok, no, but I Love, I'm like, forgot to ask that question. You weren't just like,
00:53:30 oh, he wants to see Seattle. I'll take him on some hike that like, he shows him some, you know, like the space needle or, you know. Exactly. Instead you're like, how hard Schlomo And And his response to me was 10 of course. And I was like, this guy has no clue who I'm, and this guy has no idea what a 10 looks like for me.
00:53:51 But you'd never met a and I, and I absolutely was not holding back no kid. I was just like, I'm driving him to the hardest thing I can possibly bring him out to. So this is a place where people go to train to go hike or climb Mount Rainier. Okay. This is the training ground for those people. And I was like,
00:54:10 oh, this is gonna be a Ted. Yeah. And then, anyway, you rallied a bunch of other people and it was fantastic. And Wait, but not really a bunch because there's not that many people who would do a 10. And it was raining. Yeah. It was pouring rain that Peter how many hours did it take? So Schlomo told this story on our Flex Uncensored podcast.
00:54:29 I have not laughed so hard as I laughed during that interview in a long time. So please tell me your version. Okay. Like, yeah. So Yes, you, it was super sunny the day before and I really wanted to go out the day before with them cause I wanted to see the view and it's spectacular and whatnot. Right? They were like,
00:54:47 there's a few other people that didn't want to go in the, at nighttime right. During the daytime. And I'm just like, fine. Well if we go tomorrow, it's gonna be the forecasters of rain. And they're like, whatever, who cares? And I mean, everybody's back, because I think you told them we'll, like if we leave at four,
00:55:05 what time would you be back? Like midnight or something crazy. It Would've been really late. Yes. Yes. Very, very late night. Ok. But Clark and Javier, and You do know the story, so there was Nick. There was, And Nick was like, no, I to go to happy hour in the morning. Exactly. And,
00:55:26 and so, you know, they wanted to do the networking thing. I was like, great, let's go network with a bunch of people. Yeah. Which was fun. We did that. But then the next morning somehow we all did get up and we got out there and you know, it was pouring rain the entire time. So you departed it like four in the morning?
00:55:43 Yes. No, we met out there, we had to drive an hour to get there. Right, right. And then we started climbing And I mean these are details that matter, Peter. So the thing about, it's like I was prepared, but Schlomo was in like white tennis shoes that he uses for being in the gym. And I'm looking at 'em like we're trashing those shoes.
00:56:04 Like the they are coming back. They're never gonna be white ever again. Okay. Cause this is gonna be like one step into the mud here. It it, they're they're trash wrapped. Yeah. And, and he doesn't have the right gear on. And I'm just, and it's pouring rain. Right. They don't even have rain gear. So we're just getting soaked and you know,
00:56:21 we're going up, it's 4,000 feet of vertical gain. It's, it's pretty short, but it's like straight up. There's no switch backing, you know, there's, it's just go up, it's gnarled tree roots, it's just rocks. It's like, you know, anyway, we get up to this one spot and it's right above the tree line and the wind is howling.
00:56:43 Like the gusts feel like they're probably 40 some miles an hour. Right. And I think at that point I was like, okay, it's gets sketchy, really sketchy, but it's not like abort yet. Right. Okay. We're go, We're like, we're for sure gonna die. It's like, So we're getting closer and closer, climb it up and the wind is just whipping us and the rain is still pelting us and there's snow on the ground and it's like,
00:57:09 oh my gosh. Like it, it's intense. Right? Then thunder and lightning start happening. Oh My God. And it's like, okay guys, I'm thinking in my head, these guys are running like huge Coworking spaces all over the country or you know, Javier's in South America, Javier's 40 locations. Like, I'm gonna get these guys killed. Does he have keyman insurance?
00:57:32 I was Like, no, we're not. I know we've only got, you know, maybe 30 more minutes to get the very, very top, but I'm actually thinking they're gonna, we're all gonna die. Yeah. So I, I was, I made the call and I said, guys, you know, we gotta turn this thing around. We cannot get killed today.
00:57:51 Not today. We're turning around. So we went back down, They agreed And we all Played live. Was it only you and Schlomo and Javier? Yes. Yeah. Yeah, because Nick didn't get up and then we're gonna out him and then Kane was injured and was like So she didn't drive him out there. Yes. But he turned out, turned around and went back.
00:58:16 So I, yeah. Took everybody back. But anyway, it was, you know, super fun. And it also, these guys have a different mindset and that's the one thing I I, I noticed that has shifted so significantly in this flex space and the Coworking space. And it has changed massively from the time I started up think space to where we are today.
00:58:40 Like, I am so inspired being around all these different people right now. It is, they are crushing things, right? They are wanting to grow and scale their companies and the way they're approaching it and the way that they view the expansion and they're just fired up. Like, you know, like I spent some time talking with Sophia with Palato mail and some people over at Venture X and then,
00:59:08 you know, these other people that I've named while hiking. And I'm like, everybody's on fire. Like these people are what going to be shaping this industry for like the next 10 years. And I like so badly want to be a part of that. So I'm not different. This is thee on the, on the drive And also do this other thing that is supposed to like change the world.
00:59:32 I don't know. So it's, it's just an exciting time. And I think in the very, very beginning, the Coworking industry was so much focused on community and it was, I almost felt like revenue generation was a dirty thing and it felt Hundred percent Peter, So odd. Like being focused on business stuff, right. And thinking about business models and revenue and profitability and you know,
01:00:01 there's just all these different things that are going on today that feel like, you know what, these people want to run amazing companies. Right. And have fun and do, you know, 10 rated hikes, right? Yeah, exactly. I think the energy is awesome right now. And and I think the industry has the the right people. Yeah.
01:00:23 These are good, really good people that are doing these things right now. I I they're inspiring. Yeah. Peter, I think, have you ever done an Enneagram test? I did. Are you a three? You know, I would have to look it up. You'd Have to look it up. I bet You I haven't looked at it for a while,
01:00:38 but I'm gonna write it down as a three and see what I Really have. I bet you're three. I struggle with the same like outcome versus journey, right? Like outcome versus like, do the things you wanna do in life. Like the value is in the outcome. And like talking myself out of that, like, you know, the Brene Brown stuff,
01:00:56 like you are loved just because you are, I'm always like, that's bullshit. No, You, You're loved if you produced shit. And I know it's not true, but it's like, it's like my brain can't like Brene Brown. So I totally get that. And I also, I just wanted to, to relate on that. So I love like,
01:01:18 you know, kind of where you're, you're going with the journey and I think for me, Coworking kind of plays into that. Like I always feel like, am I supposed to be doing something different? Am I supposed to like, but I love the people. I really love the people in this industry and I think going to conferences is so meaningful because it's a good like check,
01:01:37 right? Am I, am I in the right place? Am I with the right people that I want to kind of go through life with? And I feel the same way about the people in this industry. They're really fantastic and there's some inspiring work that's being done. So, and you're one of them. I'm so glad to have met you in person and Mark Gilbreth is like,
01:01:56 you two should talk and then we had like a didn't work zoom call and then I got to see you in person and we did the workout that Schlomo led, which was super fun. You're like, I just wanna go for a jog. I don't wanna do burpees. You had us doing that bear crawling and I was like, crawl, this is so,
01:02:18 but you're awesome. But you can handle it. But it's also so fun that there's like a bunch of people who wanted to get up early and go out on the turf Right. And like do hard things together. I love that. So yeah, Absolutely. Anyway, we have to wrap up cuz I'm, we're way over time. Thank you for putting me on your schedule on your first day,
01:02:38 you know, back in your own office at least. And, and thanks for sharing your story. It was so fun to connect. Likewise. And here. Yeah, I I'm excited to keep following you and see, you know, what happens and, and staying connected. I hope you'll keep coming to conferences so We can Oh yeah, definitely something I'll will keep in my calendar and schedule.
01:02:59 Cause I've had such a great time connecting with the people that are running these places and you had so many different ideas and how to do things and I wanna stay connected into this Coworking community in some way. So I think this is the way to do it. I bet the aerospace conferences aren't nearly as fun. Just a prediction. I have no idea.
01:03:19 But I did get invited to one like a month ago and I was like, yes. I'm saying yes to these Guys. Totally say yes to things I Gotta. Awesome Peter. Thank you. We'll talk. I hope we talk soon. Take care. Thank you for listening to today's episode. If you like what you heard, tell a friend, hit that subscribe button and leave us a rating and review.
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