160. The Founders of HAYVN and FireWorks Coworking Reflect on a Year in Business

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160. The Founders of HAYVN and FireWorks Coworking Reflect on a Year in Business

00:00:01 Welcome to the everything Coworking podcast, where you learn, You need to know about how the world wants to work. And now your host coworking space owner and trend expert. Jamie Russo, Welcome to the everything coworking podcast. This is your host. Jamie Russo. Thank you for joining me. I am looking forward to sharing today's conversation with you. I get to interview two of my favorite people,

00:00:38 Felicia Rubinstein, and Sonny Goodall. They were two of the members of my very first coworking startup school cohort two years ago, more than two years ago, which is crazy. And they both just celebrated their first year anniversaries of their spaces being open. So they're going to share their stories with you. And I think you're going to really enjoy hearing from them and hearing their journeys.

00:01:04 I think one special aspect for me of running that program is getting to know people like Felicia and Sonny and building relationships with them. My cohorts continue to be a size that lets me get to know everybody really personally, and know everybody's stories and help them individually to achieve their goals. So some of the courses online allowing you to access content when you need it to make the decisions you need to make.

00:01:30 But we also do phone calls and Felicia and Sonny are also part of my flight group program. So I spend time with them every single month, um, and on Slack, et cetera. So speaking of starting a coworking space, I am offering a free masterclass to show you three decisions that successful operators make when they're designing their coworking space. The masterclass is totally free.

00:02:00 I want to share with you these three aspects that I think are really critical to designing a successful space. And it's sort of a common denominator across spaces that, um, do well and help their owners achieve their financial goals. So the class is about an hour, which includes Q and a time. So if you'd like to join me, please register at www dot everything,

00:02:24 coworking.com forward slash masterclass. I am. So looking forward to this conversation, thank you for joining me, Felicia Rubenstein and sunny Goodall, not actually related. So Felicia is the founder and CEO of Haven coworking in Darien, Connecticut. Did I get Darion, right? Yup. And then sunny is the cofounder of fireworks, coworking in Marietta, Georgia outside of Atlanta.

00:02:56 So they have both joined me today. I thought these two would be just great partners to kind of share their stories. And you both just celebrated your one year anniversary. So congratulations on that. Can you believe it's, can you believe it's been a year already? It's gone by really fast. Yeah. So Felicia and funny were in my very first cohort of the coworking startup school.

00:03:21 And then it took about a year for you both to open your doors and then you've been open for a year now. So, and Felicia I'm on Felicia's advisory board, very loosely, but I got invited to sit on her kind of celebration discussion with her board, which was really special. So I invited them today to just kind of share their story.

00:03:42 I was saying at the beginning that, you know, as operators, we just, we love to hear other operators stories and how they got started and how things are going. So, um, let's start to just, you know, get to know your, tell us about your, your pre coworking background. Um, both professionally and share a couple of personal nuggets with us so we can get to know you a little bit if we should.

00:04:05 You want to go first? Sure. Thank you. And thank you Jamie, for having me. Um, I actually, before we started, I was like, Jamie, is this going to be a real podcast that I've been listening to for 20 years thinking like, Whoa, man. I mean, I love your<inaudible>. So, um, I was thinking about that,

00:04:27 you know, my pre working professional background and I can't, it's hard for me to tell my about my pre working without explaining like what my, why I started a coworking space because it's right into it. Totally. So, um, well, my background is really eclectic and, um, I was telling my story to someone a few months ago and they basically said,

00:04:49 well, um, obstacles really have created your path and my path, it seems like it's always been towards doing something like this, just based on the challenges that I faced, um, you know, throughout my journey. Um, and it just, I feel like I'm at the ultimate as long as I can get through this. COVID they're speaking of challenges.

00:05:12 Um, so just in terms of my background, um, I always wanted to be an inventor as a kid and I wound up be coming an engineer, which is at that time there wasn't something called entrepreneur or invent. Um, so I chose the entrepreneur engineering path and um, my very first job was designing battle tanks out in California, finding the Bradley fighting vehicle,

00:05:37 the guns. So that's kind of a little tidbit. Um, and I hated that job, but I learned computerated design and manufacturing, which was a really great thing to have actually right now for coworking. Um, went off to grad school out in California, um, worked at, um, the primate center, studied biomedical engineering and another probably, no,

00:05:58 I know I knew some of this, but yeah. So yeah, again, it was like all different reasons for doing this, but it kind of leads back to what I'm doing now. Um, after that, I worked in corporate for general electric teaching going around the world, teaching computerated design and manufacturing, and then, um, went to Apple,

00:06:20 um, worked there as a, uh, in marketing and did events for designers, architects, and engineers. And that's when you started to you're the marketing part of your life engineer marketing thing is not super common. Right? Exactly. Really. Even when I was at GE teaching computer design, I started like selling tee shirts on the side. Do you have a side hustle Felicia that time before there was something called side hustle,

00:06:49 but I absolutely loved, um, I loved working in corporate. I love working for Apple, um, doing these events and all the marketing type work, but I found myself at 30 years old, um, starting a family and, um, and I had to make some decisions, not that I wanted to, but it was getting impossible to commute into New York city and,

00:07:13 um, and have my son and I, they Apple gave me a job share, which was wonderful, but I found the work life balance a little hard and tried to figure out something. And it was at the time where it was like, um, there was a recession happening. So I raised my hand, took a leave from Apple and decided to start working at home cause I never intended to stop working.

00:07:36 So, um, I started a design business, um, because I love my Mac and I was like, what can I do? What can I do on my Mac at that point? Like this was like before, you know, mobile phones before anything, we're not dating you, but are we exactly? So I started doing, um, design work,

00:07:58 doing PowerPoints for people cause I knew how to do that. And that was something I could do at home while I was raising my son. And um, and eventually this lifestyle business that I started turned into a real, um, work business. And I, we, it grew, I had a business partner. We grew to 16 women. We were all working virtually and found ourselves at this point.

00:08:23 And again, this was just at the beginning of, um, all this virtual, but we, we found ourselves needing a space to be legit that people would actually, um, come meet us. Um, and, and think that we're a legitimate business to do websites for them in different things like that. So we needed a conference room and again,

00:08:41 this is the coworking didn't exist at that time, but we found a room to rent and then I actually started using this space to do events for our clients and have them meet each other. So you kind of see like where this became so fast forward, our, our agency grew, we had 16 women working virtually and we went up doing my business partner.

00:09:08 I both had our kids, we were raising them and we had, um, we're working 24 seven. I would get up early. She would work late. So it, and it worked and we had about 85 clients. And um, and then I found myself at that point working really around the clock. And so this lifestyle business was more of a work style and I was like,

00:09:30 you know what, I'm working so hard. And then my kids at that time were at the point where they were starting to look for jobs and I'm seeing, you know, like, why am I doing this working so hard and why don't I maybe go back and try to work for some, a company that I can get healthcare. I can, you know,

00:09:49 um, take vacation and get paid, take vacation, right? The entrepreneurial dream turns into no vacations. Right, exactly. So, um, Y I really loved the women and the comradery and all the, what we had. I thought, you know what, maybe I should explore getting a job at a company. So I was able to sell the marketing business,

00:10:13 um, to a larger firm. And I, one of my clients had hired me to become the director of marketing for their software company, which, um, it was a large SAS company in New York city and they were growing. And, um, I'm sorry, this is getting a little involved, but, but it's all it all relates because it,

00:10:35 I wound up working for this company in New York city, um, the company, um, I helped them, um, with their, um, branding, everything. And they ended up raising $50 million and found that they, they moved back to CA the VC firm had the move to California. So I found myself out of a job at that point. And that is when I had this epiphany to start a coworking space,

00:11:02 because I was walking around New York city trying to figure out what it is with all my talents, with all my experience that I could do. And it hit me when I heard a podcast about coworking. Like, I want to do this and I, and I have the background to do this. So that's my story, marketing events, engineer, you get the,

00:11:23 you know, all the, the things together. And so we'll okay. We'll switch over to sunny. And then we'll kind of talk a little bit more about who your space serves and sunny, tell us, um, your pre coworking life. And I know yours blends right into why coworking as well. So feel free. Yeah. Yeah. And,

00:11:43 and, and also, thanks Jamie for having us on here. Um, you have certainly served, um, as our mentor and confidant and, uh, certainly, um, wouldn't have been able to do it without you. So thank you. Um, and Felicia, I, you know, hearing your story, we have a lot of similarities. Um,

00:12:04 I actually, um, started college in engineering, but, uh, quickly learned that math mathematics was not my sweet spot, so to speak and, uh, but creative and design was. And, um, so I ended up going to art school and started as a graphic designer and illustrator, uh, long before the days of Photoshop magic. Um,

00:12:30 back then, we actually used to draw stuff, uh, by hand and, uh, my freelance too much in my early career through, um, I worked for a small agency in the early mid eighties, and then in the nineties, um, pretty much just freelanced as a designer, illustrator, uh, creative, and, um, ultimately partnered up with a guy.

00:12:56 And, um, we launched a creative services marketing agency in 96, and that was lighthouse. Um, and we still operate that today after 24 years or we're blessed. And, um, in general, I just love entrepreneurial things. Uh, I tend to turn interest and passions into businesses, which I don't always recommend. W I watched the launch launch day,

00:13:28 man, you and manufactured a fishing lumber company. And, um, you know, I, I, I learned actually from another expert in that industry said, Sonny, if, if you really like fishing, don't go in the fishing business. And he was, he was, he was so true, um, because it just engulfed all of our time and there was no time left for it.

00:13:54 And I was still, yeah. And at that time I was still, you know, running our agency and, you know, we had young children at that time, so it, uh, it was fun and we learned a lot. Um, but, uh, yeah, that was sort of my background. And then, you know, as the,

00:14:13 um, agency, uh, you know, we've had, you know, lots of success in that. Um, and I don't know about five years ago, we downsize the SI a bit. Um, and we were sitting on a lot of unused space after that. We, we own our space and at about the same time, uh, you know,

00:14:37 I had read about we work and I thought, wow, that is such an awesome idea. And we already had cool office space, game tables and, you know, cold beer in the fridge. So I thought, well, this, this can't be that hard. You know, we already have the culture, we can do this. And, um,

00:14:55 and, and we knew that our area certainly didn't have, um, this offering. And, uh, so we kind of set out on a quest to do that. And well, four years later we finally launched our coworking space fireworks. Um, and it's certainly not, is as easy as it looks. Um, there were a lot of moving pieces and,

00:15:20 you know, we just, we had to learn a whole new industry that we had no, uh, expertise. And that's actually how I stumbled upon Jamie, just, you know, researching, you know, how to do this stuff when, when she came up. And, and then when I learned that, Hey, I can just plug into her program.

00:15:39 It was, you know, it was just like this, this is it, this, this is jackpot Good. And then many ups and downs on your journey after that. So you each serve somewhat niche markets, Felicia, talk about kind of who you serve and your decision behind that and how that's, how that's going. Yeah. So, um,

00:16:03 our main focus, it's a women's centric coworking space, but men are absolutely allowed and welcome. And that was actually based on, on your recommendation to Jamie. When we first talked, you were like, you should consider this, don't subtract out this market. Um, and the reason why is again, um, I'm just creating this coworking space for a world that I want to,

00:16:31 um, to be part of. And, um, I found again with my life journey that this was something that, um, was missing. Um, when I, I also, um, was listening to a podcast. It was Miguel from we work, and that was my inspiration for, um, in the epiphany to do this. But then I originally,

00:16:51 I thought I would just go really just try to be a community manager or work at a coworking space. And I remember you had that moment of maybe you actually even helped me with that. I had my resume. Like, can you help me send it off to people? I don't know which way I want to go. I'm glad that didn't work out Felicia.

00:17:09 I don't know. Like you might have more vacation time, but yeah, exactly. But I, you know, so I, um, I went and toured a bunch of spaces and I'm like, what are you doing for women? Just knowing like, you know, what they go through for the daycare situation, or, you know, the, when you go,

00:17:29 when we were working in our somewhat coworking space at my marketing agency, or when I was working with, um, clients, and I would always kind of push like, pretend that I didn't have kids, so I could go like, you know, if there's, I would say, Oh, I have to go to a meeting when I really had to go pick up my kid from school or different things like that.

00:17:49 You know? So between that, and then when I went back to corporate afterwards in the, um, to the company in New York city, I was the only women on the, the, um, leadership board out of like, there was 15 people. And I just felt like I wasn't being heard. And, um, you know, just kind of explaining that,

00:18:08 like, as an engineer, I was always the only woman, so that didn't bother me, but I felt like going through this journey and having children and, you know, just that there's a support system that you need. And that's what I wanted to create in this space is, you know, it's beyond just the, like there's a community and there's a way that,

00:18:27 um, women connect and work that, um, you know, I wanted to, um, have everybody share and support each other in that way. So again, I think I'm finding now that the women centric piece is in terms of all my programming, it's all there in the, in the forefront, the men are participating in it, but the men are,

00:18:48 are probably more, especially at this time too, with what's happening. Um, they are more, maybe more likely to rent the private office space. So it's kind of a dual hideout in there. Yeah. And the thing about your space Felicia's is men are welcome, but it's for the women, it's a heck. Yeah. Right? Like they see the environment and the culture and the programming,

00:19:12 and for anybody who's wants to spy on some really great programming and a beautiful newsletter, we still everybody to subscribe to your newsletter. So maybe that's why it's growing so much. It's all like looky, loos, checking out your programming. So Felicia's website, which I'll put in the show notes is, is Haven, haven.com and that's H a Y VN.

00:19:35 Um, and I think it's probably combination of your event and marketing background, but you just do a stellar job on both fronts. So it's, it's actually more just everything that I want. Right. And so I think, and you and Sonny, both, I think fall into this camp a little bit, which I think is important is you just kinda went hard at what you were passionate about and wanted to create.

00:19:56 And I think that's the right thing. And so, you know, the, the female piece was important to you and you didn't want to kind of dilute it by making it more of a generic space and that's served you well. And we can talk a little bit about that and sunny, your space also has, again, doesn't exclude anyone, but has a,

00:20:13 you know, a bit of a heck yeah. For certain types of folks. Can you talk about that? Yeah, yeah, exactly. Um, you know, we, we, well, I wouldn't say even prefer, but you know, the, you know, our creative people, it's a slam dunk here. Um, and I think most of that is because that's,

00:20:34 that's the language we speak and, you know, we're, we're very comfortable with creative people. Um, you know, we're because we have the agency that is attached to fireworks. Um, you know, we have designers and account people and video people. And so it's just a natural that we would cater somewhat to creative people. Now we have other members that are not in the creative industry,

00:21:05 um, that we can almost immediately tell when somebody comes in for a tour, if it's going to work for them or not. And, um, you know, we've, we've had, you know, a few that have just asked questions that, you know, we were like, I just know this, person's not going to be happy here. And yeah.

00:21:26 And it, and it just kind of solves itself. Um, we also thought, you know, with a lot of startup creatives that, you know, we could offer lots of advice and share our experiences, um, you know, just having, you know, a creative business for, you know, nearly 25 years now. Um, we didn't know that the market was really,

00:21:50 you know, here, uh, but we were going to build it anyway. And, uh, you know, we were, we were also hopeful that we would attract creators it's because it was going to be an additional resource for our marketing agency, um, to have additional talent, you know, that we could reach out to when we had overflow work.

00:22:12 Um, and the creatives did come, uh, you know, most, most of our members are designers and writers, video editors. Uh, we even had some people in the music and, and film industries. Um, so it's, it's a lot of fun having these people around and, you know, we have, you know, some nonprofits,

00:22:32 um, you know, we have some developers and we even had an insurance guy for a while and who I thought, you know, we, we don't really certainly would not think we would attract, um, insurance people, but this guy was so much fun. He loved, he just loved the whole environment. And, um, and he's been actually one of,

00:22:55 one of our favorite members. How do you see your members doing work together? Cross the prospects? Yes, definitely. And some of them have actually become really close friends, um, because like most coworking spaces, everybody generally lives, you know, nearby. And so they're in the same communities and, you know, they're definitely working with each other.

00:23:21 We've got some designers that work regularly with each other. Um, the agency has hired the designers. We've we've, we have, uh, you know, video editors that we've used and even a voiceover, uh, person that we use yeah. That we used for some, some radio ads. So it's, it's working exactly. Like we were hoping it would.

00:23:47 And yeah, I almost think that it just happened naturally. You know, we didn't, there was no pre-programmed effort to try to do this. It just happened. And it was just natural for us. Yeah. But it was that commitment. I see. When some folks start spaces, they want to go after sort of a niche, then they get sort of nervous because they really want members and they want the revenue.

00:24:15 So they don't want to turn off, you know, people who might otherwise join. But, um, and again for you, it sounds like certainly you're not excluding, but there is that, you know, I belong here and that's really obvious factor for some people that come in and that's working out well, because it sounds like you have a pretty strong community.

00:24:35 I mean, when people do work together that accelerates, uh, you know, relationships pretty quickly. Yeah. Very much so. And, um, you know, we were excited here not long ago. One of, one of our designer members is, is doing some brand work for one of the nonprofit companies that are here. So it really is.

00:24:55 And, and, you know, like I said, we don't really know, we're not exclusive for creative people, but I think, you know, entrepreneurs tend to be creative thinkers. So it just fosters that environment. So you both are also examples of Sonny, are you in a D are you walkable or are you parking drive? Um, to like a downtown area?

00:25:19 Yeah. If someone wants to go out and get a, Yeah. We're, um, Marietta has, uh, you know, a city square. It is, you know, really, you know, charming and quaint. We are walkable to that, but it, it is, you know, it's probably a 15, 20 minute walk. Um,

00:25:40 so I'd say most people, um, you know, probably don't walk to the square area, but there's lots of places in between, you know, we have deli down the street and coffee and that kind of stuff. Yeah. So it's, it's somewhat walkable and, you know, we have bike racks and that sort of thing. So people want to bring bikes.

00:26:01 That's fine too. But we, I mean, I would classify both of you, of you as fairly suburban, right. Not urban. Yeah. So in example of definitely, I feel like suburban coworking used to be sort of a, Hmm. Is this going to work? You know, even, I mean, Felicia, I think, you know,

00:26:17 a couple of years ago when you were going after the female market, I was like, Ooh, Darien is not very big Felicia. And so, you know, you get, and this is why I love, you know, to hear success, stories of niches and particularly in suburban markets. And I think, you know, I would be optimistic for both of you and Felicia you,

00:26:36 you know, I think starting to see some of this, at least in terms of the influx of folks from new Yorkers. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Taking off and now there's going to be, you know, more demand and you're going to have a differentiator, which I think is positive for precedent. Yeah. I mean, we were in, I mean,

00:26:53 Darian's is a small town we're in Fairfield County, so there's a lot of people cross borders and it's, um, you know, I just pick that town for the location because it's right off the highway and off of the major intersections. But, um, you know, it's only a few miles radius, so the Norwalk, which is a bigger city and Stanford are right there.

00:27:16 So there's 20 minutes from lots of different towns. Yeah. But they only, like when they say it's like a 12 mile radius, if you are willing to come and especially with traffic and everything, um, you know, it's, people don't want to drive too much. So it's, it's a pretty central located place. Yup. You know what I also should've mentioned in terms of backstory on your spaces,

00:27:35 both of you have similar size of kind of roughly 7,000 square feet ish, and then a mix of private space and open space. So kind of Product mix. Yeah. And I'm really happy that especially now that we have the, um, what I have 20 private offices and then the open space, because obviously right now the open spaces where people are a bit concerned,

00:28:00 but I am finding the, like, I wasn't able to sell the dedicated desks as much before and now, um, maybe since I put the plexiglass up between the stations, like they're, they're going, which is interesting. Yeah. I definitely kind of a, yeah. An evolution. And then sunny, do you still have your big creative meeting space or did you convert that?

00:28:24 Um, we, we do, we have, we have a big conference room that, you know, everything's modular. So it, it converts from, you know, traditional meeting space to photo shoots, to video shoots, um, you know, use it for entertaining members, have a dance in there. Um, so it's, it's very functional it's as most of our space is,

00:28:51 you know, with everything generally. I mean, we have walls, but a lot of things are movable. And, you know, we find that, you know, because we have a lot of creatives here, you know, where one area was a lounge, they, they may come in and move things around and use it to do a quick video shoots.

00:29:12 Um, you know, we we've seen that happen, um, you know, many times, and we definitely in the, in the suburban market, we, we found that private offices, most people like, um, we do have, you know, we have our dedicated desk or in open type spaces, um, their workstations that's, that's probably been the hardest thing for us to move.

00:29:39 We don't have a lot of them and we've moved them around different locations in the office, um, that has, has made a difference, but it's weird. It's like, you know, for one given period, they were all full and then now we have one person in there. Um, and so it's just, it's just a little strange in that respect,

00:30:01 but you know, what we're thinking about doing is converting some of the dedicated, the dedicated desk area into just larger private offices, because we, we find ways we don't have enough, uh, like two, two person offices and we're getting a lot of requests for that. And, um, so we're, we're looking to probably make that change. It can be hard to predict because dedicated desks makes so much sense for your membership,

00:30:32 the monitors and the, you know, place to work and yeah, Yeah. That's, that's what we thought they were when we were repurposing these, you know, amazing workstation, right? Yeah. High quality, big surfaces. Yeah. Right. But, uh, you know, they just, they just haven't, haven't moved and, you know,

00:30:53 it's, it's like any given day, it can change quickly. Yeah. Well, right. Especially in the environment that we're in Felicia, I'm going to start with you. What's been the most rewarding aspect of opening a coworking space. Um, so I, I think really, um, it's a couple things it's, it's building something out of nothing like an idea,

00:31:18 just seeing it in your engineer. Like, I really haven't invented something and, and having people feel, um, the same and in alignment with me with this idea. And so that's been really exciting, um, as well as, um, my husband makes fun of me about this too, but I'd love making connections, having people connect with people and we've actually branded this and called it the Haven magic.

00:31:47 And it's what Sonny was talking about to trademark it. I love it. I love it. We've done like little videos on it. And it's just so just watching when people connect and you know, like, Oh, you need to know this person. And then they start working together just like Sonny said. So, I mean that's, and you know,

00:32:05 so that's, that's a real part. That's rewarding to me. And also I'm, I can tell you, I'm never bored. There's always a challenge. You know, I would like to be, I actually thought I'd be more bored, but I really did. And I, I certainly, I was going to ask if you felt the same, it was like,

00:32:24 I, you know, we've been working so hard up through like March and, and really, you know, became profitable if you saw everything happening. And then I was ready for a vacation, like in April may, And then boom, this happened. So that, that's the part that I am definitely not bored by the, you know, it's a whole new world.

00:32:47 You're going to spend some summers on the Cape, enjoying the beach. And then that was my plan. I had my vision board. I'm just so used to a business being 24 seven it's, you know, you're, you're always on, even when you're on vacation, you know, if you're an entrepreneur, you're still thinking about your business or thinking about other ideas or,

00:33:12 you know, you know, what ifs, um, and you know, I've just done it pretty much my entire career. I think I've only had only two other jobs, you know, my entire career, you know, so I'm, I'm just, just used to it, but that you can, you know, it's, you also have the flexibility,

00:33:32 you know, that, you know, when you want to, you know, work remotely in a vacation place, you know, you have the freedom to do it and exactly, exactly. Yeah, yeah, exactly. Sandy, how about you? What's been the room of the most rewarding. Yeah, very similar it's it's the members and how they,

00:33:56 you know, connect with, with each other. Um, and with us, I mean, they're so supportive of us, um, in each other's businesses. And that's been amazing to see when we, when we closed for COVID, you know, we quickly offered half writ to everybody. Um, as most of our members, I mean, they're,

00:34:18 they're freelancers, they're, you know, small entrepreneurs and, you know, I just knew that, you know, they, they would need this, this relief and they were, you know, some of them were very relieved. I think we had one or two that downgraded their memberships, but didn't want to not be a part of it. Um,

00:34:41 and we had some members that actually said, Nope, I'm okay. Continue to bill me full price. And that was just so surprising and just extremely, extremely touching and personally rewarding. Um, and, and we haven't lost any members, um, as a result of the COVID so far. Um, and our members are starting to return full time now.

00:35:08 So we're, you know, we're excited to start to see the faces again. Yeah. Felicia, um, outside of COVID, I feel like we can talk about those challenges all day long. Um, what's been the most challenging aspect. Yeah. It's funny. Cause when you had sent me the question, I'm like, Oh miss, I think there's a list.

00:35:34 Do I have to narrow it down to one? It, it was hard for me to think beyond Kobe, outside of it. I know the availability of that pain, that pain. Yeah. Because I mean, actually before then, I, um, I think it, you know, it, for me, everything has been really fun and, and creating this space.

00:35:53 Um, and so like every challenge I decide again in the engineering world is like, Oh, I can figure this out, but yeah. Something figure out a problem to solve. Yeah. I think, yeah. I think the, the biggest challenge, and this was in one of your podcasts too, is really the whole lease negotiation piece for me was,

00:36:13 um, the hardest part, um, that I didn't, it was hard, hard for me to solve it and I had walked away for a while, came back. Cause I knew I really wanted this space, but that was probably the most challenging piece up until now. Yeah. Getting that right. Finding the right location, getting the right terms because it is critical.

00:36:31 And we see, yeah. Even, I mean, working with, with the right landlord and Sunday's been in a positive position in, in that respect when, you know, something like this happens, it's totally out of your control. Well, I think with the, the lease negotiation was one of the pieces, um, which we learned afterwards was asking for exclusivity,

00:36:54 you know, in, in the space. And even though in the lease, I did have that exclusivity once, you know, cause that was the back and forth and why I walked away for awhile. There's still some things that were kind of not written now that I know for the next time that, uh, um, that we, I wasn't able to avoid in the exclusivity piece.

00:37:17 So let him learn. Yup. And exclusivity. Um, you mean the only sort of service, flexible workspace in a certain, you know, sort of in the building, in the building. Right. So I had that in the lease, but I, it wasn't clear clear enough that the landlord shouldn't be creating space, which I think friends of Sonny is a landlord.

00:37:43 So we don't, we don't pick on landlords, but I think that will start to be, you know, more of a thing, right? Commercial real estate is changing dramatically in front of our eyes. And so I think that aspect of the lease will become more important, but I also think more opportunities. Casey was just on my startup school Q and a,

00:38:01 and he said he has like 24 management agreement deals that he's working on. Like just, you know, that used to be such a minor portion of what he was doing. And now it's becoming so much more common. So, um, yes, honey, what about for you? I mean, right. Oh, you own the buildings. So there's,

00:38:21 you know, kind of comfortable with doing construction. You don't have to manage the lease. What, what outside? So I'm yet to experience the challenges of lease negotiations. Um, but yeah, it w yeah, it was, it was a challenge to launch a business that we literally had no knowledge or experience at. Um, but that's also what makes it exciting.

00:38:47 Um, and you know, fortunately we were able to, um, hire a community manager that was just a rock star. And I was wondering when we, Hannah, amazing, she is Stellar. She is awesome. And we actually hired her a year before we were open. And, you know, we hired her as a contractor. And the reason we did that is because we still had an agency to run.

00:39:22 And so we needed somebody that could just, you know, figured out and learn as we learned, because we couldn't just devote all of our focus on, on opening coworking. And it was funny when we were interviewing Hannah, we said, you know, we know nothing about this industry. We can't train you. Um, probably can't even answer your questions.

00:39:52 And I said, but you know, if you're, if you're up for an adventure, I said, we, we really, we really like you. And we really think you can do this, this job. And she just hit the ground running. And, you know, she was managing all of our contractors and putting in, you know, thinking way ahead of what systems we were going to need.

00:40:15 And, you know, she, she learned so much, um, and just she made a happen. Uh, she, she really did. And, you know, we're, we're, we're blessed to have her on board. And once we finally opened, you know, she is now an expert at this business and, you know, is gonna just,

00:40:34 you know, have the skills to, you know, to, to grow this operation. Um, so we're excited about that. Um, and the other challenge was because we were running an agency, you know, we, didn't not only have the time and we didn't have just a ton of cash, you know, to dump into launching this thing.

00:40:55 Right. Yeah. Because, you know, the agency was still operating. It had downsized, you know, so we, you know, that was, you know, our, our first concern and we didn't want to go borrow money and add debt. So, you know, we had made the decision that we were going to cash flow at the best we could.

00:41:16 And, you know, fortunately we were not, you know, paying rent to a landlord. And so that helped us tremendously. And, you know, so we did cashflow it and we had to phase it and we're still phasing. Um, even though we're profitable now and things are moving along, uh, you know, we, you know, we've restrained ourself and we only,

00:41:43 you know, uh, spend on things when we, we feel it's the right thing and we push it out as far as we can. And it's, it's worked well because a lot of decisions that initially we said, yeah, let's go get that or let's build that, or let's buy that. You know, we, by waiting, you know,

00:42:02 it's changed our decision and we've many times pivoted in a different direction. Um, many times You also, the advantage of kind of owning a building is you're slightly. And I, of course it can depend, but slightly longer view on the business. And so, you know, when you're in a lease, especially if it's a shorter lease, like five years,

00:42:25 like Mandy, you gotta make decisions quickly, right? Because any decision you need, like only amortize over the five years of this lease. And so you gotta, like, you gotta make it work really fast. Uh, and it has to work well and right, you can't sort of be patient through some of those decisions and do we really need to go get this?

00:42:43 So I think, I think that's a big advantage and I see other people kind of taking that approach. Um, I was just on with a woman who owns a space in Florida and she's like, yeah, we want to add, you know, some event space and a rooftop space. And like some other things, you know, to kind of build the space,

00:42:58 but it's not, it's theirs. It's not an emergency that can kind of take their time and finance it comfortably. Yeah. And a lot of our space, you know, we were working, you know, with space that we already had, you know? And so it was how do we use, you know, what we have and, you know,

00:43:17 we did instilled all art, I would say, optimizing or maximizing every square inch, but that's what we're gradually working on, you know, is to try to monetize every inch of the space that we can, you know, because it's, wasn't originally designed for coworking. Yeah. And so we're, we're, we're finding that, you know, it presents its challenges too.

00:43:42 Yeah. Felicia, um, if you could give advice to somebody starting a space today, what would it be? Hmm, that's actually pretty easy. No, I mean the best thing, you know, again, saying this TJ, just having a peer group, you know, joining an association, you know, through thick and thin, this has been my go to just,

00:44:08 to have other people that understand or are going through the process, um, because I could not have done this without, without, um, you know, without your help and without the, you know, the peer group, I was actually saying, Sonny, how about Hannah? Like, Canada's been really helpful for us to like having the community managers talk to each other.

00:44:31 She's kind of helped us when we were trying to look for a few things in our space and we reached out again and she gave us answers. So, um, I think that's the most important thing. Just, you know, have some people to, and during this COVID crisis, thank God for, um, for, for this group. So the industry in general is very,

00:44:53 you know, community focused and willing to share. I think the other thing that peer group helps with that I've heard both of you kind of comment on is like, you know, looking at the challenges sort of as normal, right? Like, well, this is what happens when you're starting a business and there are a lot of things to figure out and there's a ramp up period.

00:45:12 And some of that is, is seeing others go through the process right. And realizing, well, this is how it is. And not being surprised by it because I think things seem much worse when you don't see them coming like a COVID, um, you know, so kind of right. Sort of having some of those things be normalized and knowing you have that support group to reach out to Sonny,

00:45:32 what, um, what advice would you give to someone starting? Yeah. And it's interesting, you know, this, this industry is, you know, just so different. I'm used to very competitive businesses. Most businesses are, and this industry is so giving to each other, um, you know, how, yeah. We're competing with each other to some level,

00:45:55 but everybody's supporting each other and, and, um, helping each other, like no other business I've been a part of. And it's, it's really amazing. And, and, you know, I was telling somebody the other day, I said, I, you know, coworking, honestly, it can change the world because, because, you know,

00:46:19 we're, we're, we're sitting here with so many different people, different businesses walks of life, and we're all coexisting in such a supportive way. I mean, it, it just, it gives me goosebumps, you know, when I, when I talk about it and I, I really think that, you know, it has, has the ability to change things.

00:46:41 Um, but really the advice is, is your Jamie's words, it's you do you, and, you know, she told us that, and that just really, really stuck. And as an ad agency person, you know, we've spent our entire career being a reflection of our clients and what they think we should be, or, you know, us pretending to be something we're not,

00:47:08 I mean, that's just everyday part of our life. And, you know, with this, it's you do, you, and now are, it's just natural and it feels good. And it's, it's a business, it's a reflection of us, not something or somebody else. So you do you, those are, those are strong words, The tag line.

00:47:32 I love it. Thank you both for sharing your stories and, and, and your experience. And, um, I could talk to you both all day. I know Sonny has to run across town for a meeting. So I promised him I would reign it in. Hello, thanks for having me, Jamie, all your help. And, um,

00:47:53 Felicia YouTube. I'd love to catch up with you too. I know, I know. I was thinking we need to do like a happy hour or something so that we can, uh, do, do some social time. And that would be great. See what everybody's up to. Cause I know everybody now that we've got location, number one, people have some,

00:48:10 some plans for the future, so we'll have to share through that as well. Yeah, yeah. Um, well I was just going to say in closing. Yeah. Um, thank you for sharing your stories. This is what I was going to say. Both of these folks are great inspiration. You can, I will, um, put their websites in the show notes so that you can find them Haven.

00:48:33 I always have to remember whether it's ha ha or why, why is it in the middle, like one challenge. Another challenge is to do the branding and then, um, sunny space is fireworks, fly.com and, um, yeah, you can, can do a looky loo and see what they're, they're all up to. Um, Felicia has also done just an incredible job with VR,

00:48:59 creating a virtual community. And I keep telling Felicia, I'm gonna keep talking to her about how she can make that a bigger part of, of what she's creating as a brand, because her programming and the, in the way you connect folks is just incredible and very natural for your community. So, um, so anyway, thank you both. I look forward to chatting again soon and have a great rest of your day.

00:49:23 Okay. Great. Thanks guys. Bye bye.

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