156. Winning the Hearts and Minds of Those you Influence

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156. Winning the Hearts and Minds of Those you Influence

00:00:01 Welcome to the everything coworking podcast, where you learn what you need to know about how the world wants to work. And now your host coworking space owner and trend expert. Jamie Russo. Welcome. I am here today with a very special guest. Mark Willis is the former CEO of Keller Williams Realty international and founder of the Willis family foundation and Mark Willis leadership. He's a business leader,

00:00:39 investor philanthropist and lifestyle activist, and he's known for his charismatic leadership style and influence. And we're going to talk about that today and how that applies to our own lives and our own roles as leader. He was named as one of the 10 most powerful people in residential real estate by the Swan pole power 200 in 2014. And since stepping down from his role as head of Keller Williams,

00:01:05 he has used his platform and influence to actively serve and positively impact the lives of others. So he is still playing a very real leadership role in life and with his, his, um, foundation and other projects that he's working on. And we'll let him share a little bit about what he's up to. He was working on a coworking project for a little while,

00:01:30 and that's how I met Mark. And Mark sent an email, just kind of asking some questions about the coworking business model and how it worked. And I happened to answer it came into the GWA account and then Mark and I got introduced and I spent a little time with you, and it was just really, really taken by, you know, kind of your sort of way of being and your leadership role and also how willing you were to engage with folks.

00:01:59 I remember I came down and came to an event that you were hosting and you were speaking at the event, and then you spent a couple of hours with me going through like a personality profile that you love to use it at Keller. And about this guy is so busy and he's, so, you know, has a lot of ways, you know,

00:02:15 to use, you know, your influence on a, on a broader basis and spend a couple of hours kind of helping me. And that was really impactful for me. So got to know Mark A. Little bit, and I've been thinking, you know, recently in particular, there are a lot of sort of crisis events that we've been managing through. And I think,

00:02:34 um, so my audience is made up a lot of coworking operators and folks in real estate and people that may not have been sort of in a position of leadership where they've been referred to as a leader, and yet are all of a sudden kind of called upon to be more of a leader. And in Mark, we were just doing a pre chat and you were kind of talking about the critical roles that leader leaders play and how that's reflected our business.

00:02:59 So I thought of Mark and thought, you know, I would love to hear Mark's perspective on, you know, leadership in general, but during this time, and to help us really think about our roles as leaders and how we might further develop that and kind of, um, really kind of grow into that more where we're, it's becoming even more necessary.

00:03:20 So thank you for joining me today. Thank you for having me, Jamie, I'm delighted to have an opportunity to just to reconnect and to chat. And one of my favorite topics in the world is leadership. And I, um, you know, I, I try to wake up every day with this one, thought about what being a leader is.

00:03:43 And I think that the real role of a leader is to earn the hearts and minds of the people they lead. And, you know, I went, I've had so many great training experiences over the course of my career in real estate. My, even my career after real estate, one of the great ones was I got to hang out with John Maxwell at his event,

00:04:08 his annual event called exchange several times. And you know, that's where you'd have like 60 or so business leaders, all at a high level of leadership who would spend three days with John Maxwell and he would provide these experiences. And one day, one of the, one of the, uh, the other people in the audience that was there, I said,

00:04:34 well, John, what, what, what do you think is the role of a leader? And he said, well, you know, a leader has got to do three things, and that is number one. They have to demonstrate that they care first and foremost. So that's why I say, I believe the first role of a leader is to earn the hearts and earn the minds of the people you lead.

00:05:04 Because until people know that you care about them personally and not for what you have to get out of that relationship, people want give you the right to leave them. And so, and, and we could, we could talk about that one point for the rest of the hour. How do you earn the hearts and minds of the people you lead? And yet I think what matters most is that we are authentic and we are genuine.

00:05:41 And we put the other person ahead of ourselves. And I think anytime you are leading, if you are leading to push yourself up above other people, your leadership tenure will not be long lived. It really, the role of the leader is to lift people up, to take them to a higher place than where they are. If it's effective, positive leadership.

00:06:11 Now later, it could be negative or positive, right? So let's give it this context, the positive leaders to lift people up to a higher position in life than where they aren't. It's when you lift other people up, you're not actually failing to go hire yourself, but you may not always be going as high as they are. And you have to accept that also an interesting perspective.

00:06:36 So, um, so three things let me hit the three things and then we'll change gears, however you want to. So the second thing is people you've got to earn their trust. People won't let you, they will not give you the right to lead them authentically unless they trust you. And so showing that you trust means that you have to give first before you expect to receive.

00:07:06 And I think a lot of people in leadership missed this. We give first without expectation of anything in return, because it's the right thing to do because we care and we're trustworthy. And then the third thing is we have to actually be able to help the people that we're leading. So every follower is walking around saying, Hey, do you really care about me genuinely?

00:07:36 And how do I know I can trust you? Do I trust you? And can you even really help me? So in order to help someone, you have to know what they want. You can't lead people that say they want one thing, simply because they're saying what they think you want to hear. You have to lead people by authentically understanding what matters to them and what's important.

00:08:07 And then the real role of a leader is to give context. Once you show that you care, once you've earned their trust and once you know what they want, and you can help them. It's about bringing context. And I, I love getting to know people. I mean, you talked about how, when you and I spend some time together,

00:08:33 the first thing we did was we, you know, I had you completed behavioral profile. And by the way, the Ava is still one of my, my greatest tools for getting to know someone, because it's a, you know, it's like a customized process where you're, you're really dealing with the person and what matters to them. Um, I like using that estimate to get to know someone,

00:08:57 then I know whether I can help them and then I can answer whether or not I leave them. And, and we should probably talk about behavioral profiles and how they can help your coworking operators really understand the motivations of the people they serve and understand their behavior. So then they can, they can help them and use that as a tool to get to know them better and then help them get what they want.

00:09:24 Cause that's, that's a powerful tool. Um, and you know, obviously I can, I can keep talking about leadership. I'm very passionate about it in case your kid until I love it. And my whole life, I think what I've done is I've just led people and I've led people with authenticity. And I don't say that in a bragging way.

00:09:47 I just know that I have led them in a way where I really wanted to be able to help them. I really did care and they really could trust me. And, and that, that creates such a meaningful relationship when you can get there with someone so much, meaning give me a little, um, I've been a little bit for me on the giving context.

00:10:15 Okay. Let's say you're asking someone to do something because often, um, as a leader, you're, you're exhorting something out of some, someone you're, you're, you're, you're trying to bring something that powers them forward and you're, you're teaching them how to think in a way that they need to think. So they do what they need to do.

00:10:41 So they get what they want to get. Right? That's really what the definition of leadership is. Teaching people how to think. So they do what they need to do. So they get what they want to get. So when we, when we talk about teaching people, how to think that starts with context. And so if I were going to lead you,

00:11:06 I would want you to understand why does this matter? Why is this behavior important? How have others used it successfully? Let me demonstrate and be a role model and lead by example, all of that is the process of giving context, which helps others see that they can actually do it too. People have to be able to see themselves doing something before they will do it,

00:11:36 except first creation, second creation thing. Right? So I always try to start with con I start with earning their hearts and minds because that's job one. I'm going to go beyond that. It's really, how can I help you think the way you need to think so that you can see this? So I can tell you back in the Keller Williams days,

00:11:59 uh, we, every single class that we ever taught started with six business and personal perspectives, which prospective number one is sub mastery. In other words, you, you can't be a Jack of all trades and navigate the road to massive success because there's not a road that's wide, it's a narrow pathway. That's well-defined. So self mastery is number one thing you have to understand,

00:12:31 you have to master what you're being asked to do a time management. They did 20 principle, understanding that 20% of what you do generates 80% of your outcomes. Even if you took that so far, that 20% where 80% of the clothes you have 20 white, you wear 20% of the clothes. You have 80% of the time. We, you know,

00:12:54 we taught that you've got to use learning as the foundation for your action plan. We taught that you got to move from what you do naturally to following systems, models, role models, and then business models. And, and truly by bringing those disciplines into your life, we taught that you've got to, unlimit your limiting beliefs. We taught that you want to be accountable as a human being,

00:13:25 not a victim. So we always brought context to the lesson on the front end. And that context is meaningful in helping people know how to think to navigate the pathway that they're on. And so I think once you are in the hearts and minds, now let's give context, let's teach you how to think. And then Jamie, beyond that, you have to remember,

00:13:53 you know, I said, everything rises and falls on leadership. At the end of the day, this is where, um, the rubber meets the road. The hardest person to lead is yourself. You know, why, why? Well, I think, you know why, because we judge other people by their actions, we judge ourselves by our intentions.

00:14:20 And so if you really want to know yourself as a leader, don't watch what you say, watch how you behave, and you will begin to really know yourself. And so what I would say to all of your coworking, um, space leaders that you serve is for them not to watch what they say, but really pay attention to how they behave,

00:14:48 what they do, what they do when no one's looking, how they think about the people that they lead, when no one is looking, do they speak good about them? Do they speak badly about them? Do they love them and appreciate them? Do they resist them? Because they're having to give at a time when they don't feel like they have the,

00:15:08 you know, the, the few on their tank to give, you got to watch yourself when nobody's looking, that's how you'll know how effective you are as a leader, and you gotta manage your time and your priorities effectively. And a lot of people, particularly in workspace environments, they waste your time, pretty much they are. And then you have to know your own self so that,

00:15:34 you know, like I know that I'm very social. So I know that I could waste time by being too social at a time when maybe being more focused. Um, and, and, and a little bit more intentional about how that focus gets aimed. So I'm thinking about the things you're sharing in the context of, you know, managing through the pandemic and many of our businesses,

00:16:04 you know, having to close people, not being allowed to leave their house and come to work and having to manage teams through this. And I, you know, I'm just kind of putting some pieces together because I think we think of leadership and it feels vague. And I love that, you know, you've kind of got a little bit of a framework around it and starting with,

00:16:22 you know, caring about your team and being authentic about that and earning their trust, um, and actually being able to help them. And I think some of the things that are coming to mind for me, I tend to be very, um, we know, you know, this from my profile, but very like results driven, action oriented. Like I want to,

00:16:40 you know, okay, here's what we're going to do. Well. So I tend to get into the level, That's a classic CEO graph, right. That tells you that. Right. So they're, you know, there's some, some good things, but some trade offs. Cause I tend to be very like, alright, let's figure out what to do,

00:16:58 you know? And you're saying like, look, you gotta make sure the team knows you care. You care about them as humans and care about what they're dealing with at home, with, you know, homeschool and the kids and you know, all the other challenges that everybody's facing right now. And, and, you know, with all the cultural challenges with diversity that we're going through and,

00:17:16 you know, not knowing how that impacts our teams and, you know, the, the letting your team know that you're there for them as a person. I think sometimes we forget about that piece and we think of leadership as, as right. Going straight for the numbers, going straight for the results and being really focused right now. I think a lot of us are focused on how are we going to fill the space as backup?

00:17:38 You know, we're opening back up and, and it's well intentioned and that we want to keep the team, you know, we want to keep everybody, we want to have everybody still employed. We want the business to survive. Um, but, but those are some of the thoughts I'm having is, you know, make sure we're taking the time to be humans and make sure that,

00:17:56 you know, it's part of it's context. Totally interrupt me. I feel like I can, I can sense. This is something that if I were one of your listeners right now, I would need to hear this. So maybe I'm saying this for my own self, more than anything else. Um, sometimes leadership is about making tough calls for the good of all.

00:18:22 Even though it may not feel in the moment like it's earning anyone's heart or anyone's mind, but it is making the decisions that you have to structurally make to keep the business moving forward. What I find is that the people that are in what you're saying about behavior, the people that are good at that often are not good at the people side. And leadership is both.

00:18:53 In other words, it's competence also. I don't mean to make it sound like it's all airy fairy competence. You've got to know what the heck you're doing And be willing to make those hard decisions. Gotta make the hard decisions, but do it in the way that that makes people know that you care, even though it's hard, You can't let them think that you're doing it ruthlessly.

00:19:18 You're doing it because it's what saves the business. You're doing it because it's the responsible thing to do. And it's theirs. Those costs can be very tough because you know, particularly more social people like me. I hate the takeaway. I hate to take anything away from somebody because I feel like that's, that's like moving backwards. And so I have this little self-talk,

00:19:46 this goes right back to the hardest person to lead is yourself, right? So then I have to give myself a little self talking and say, no, you know what? This is about preserving what we have. This is a crisis. When you, when you use a health analogy, the health of your business, let's just use this analogy, the health of a person who's literally,

00:20:12 uh, having a heart attack, you'd call the ambulance. You'd have a nine one, one. You would have every resource available to save that person's life to keep that person. Well, that's what leading during crisis is about in a business. It's like, you've got the ambulance there and you got the empties and you got the whole like diagnostic team saying,

00:20:39 okay, this is what's wrong. Here's what we need to do. And often those are hard choices. And so we hide behind, okay, well, it's my position. And I'm the leader spur that people don't care a thing in the world about that. They want you to tell them, Hey, we're in a crisis. I called the ambulance.

00:21:01 I got empties here. I got technicians here. I am making a diagnosis for the health and the future of this business and the wellbeing of this business. So I can continue to serve you. And I think that's the other side of leadership, right? And I'm not sure entirely, this is what you mean by context, but it's a little bit of right.

00:21:27 You've got to let them know I've called in. You know, I've done all the things. I've, you know, the, the EMT has done everything they can, and we still have to make these hard decisions. Right. I remember one meeting, I had Jamie, um, we were in a market crisis and you know, sometimes a leader has to bring a little drama.

00:21:45 Right. And so I just did this video of these ambulances coming in and coming to a stop in front of a building. And I said, okay, that's where we are. Right. Yeah. Right. Yep. That's bringing context. Yeah. So this is not about you. This is about making tough decisions. And hopefully in being this direct and this open in this authentic,

00:22:17 you all will know that I'm showing you this first and foremost, because I care. I think quota virus, um, you know, in a way has presented that crisis moment to all of us in such a way where it's like every EMT possible word. I mean, we're in the ER right now, some of us. Yup, yup. Or we've been there and hopefully,

00:22:46 yeah. Although I think a lot of us are still bare. I mean, the, the economy is a complete disaster, how it means sort of, I think you have so much wealth in this area. I'm not sure where to start, but you have managed, you know, led through at this point. I mean, you made it through 2007,

00:23:08 eight, you were at Keller Williams at that time. And kind of now That's when we had our biggest, I mean, that's was our biggest period of growth we ever experienced. We had competitors that went from over a hundred thousand agents to 50,000 agents and we went from 50,000 agents to 75,000 agents during that time. Yeah. I mean, I'd love to hear you kind of talk about that too.

00:23:31 Like how do you, as a leader sort of see the opportunity and make, you know, make some, some bets on, on what's out there and how do you bring people along with you to see what you see? Okay, well, let me let's, let me just say I was blessed to work with really smart, good people and no one succeeds alone.

00:23:51 And so while I might say, you know, like I'm bragging that I had the ability to navigate through that tough period. I worked with an amazing team and together we have the ability to navigate through that tough period. And I think this is where teamwork is so critically important and building your circle of five. And, and, and this would be the first thing I would say is that at Keller Williams,

00:24:20 um, you know, we had, there was Gary Keller, Mo Anderson, Mary Tennant, and myself. And we were the Eagles, literally when the four of us got together, we just made harmony. And it was a beautiful thing. And, and it was all because we all wanted the same thing. Not all of us wanted something different from any other one of us.

00:24:46 And we were the four people leading the company. And so what I would say is that you have to be with people you're aligned with, and that alignment of all wanting the same thing is what matters. Most. I had one of my consultants. In fact, the guy who brought me the Ava Bayne Henyon said something to me when the market shifted in 2008,

00:25:11 September, 2008, you said, I think it was September of 2008 one. It may have been 2007. I can't, might've been September, 2007 and I've talked to me and we were about to have mega camp in Austin. And that's our annual one of our, we had two big events every year. We had our family reunion, uh, that was our convention.

00:25:36 And then we had a September convention that was for our top producers and we called it mega camp. And so we had mega camp coming and literally the day before mega camp, one year, the day before nine 11 happened. And then here we are, you know, six years later. And the day before, you know, this is when bear Stearns and odd,

00:26:04 I mean like huge collapse, right? And so I'm, I'm knowing that I've got a good give, a keynote address to, you know, several thousand people the next morning I call every consultant. I know everyone who can bring me context because a leader has to have leaders that bring him context. Right? Yeah. I, yeah. I love just that perspective of,

00:26:28 I may not have all the answers I need rarely Good. I have answers, but I, if I did enough talking and connecting with others, I could come up with answers. And so, um, my, my friend and consultant Bayne Henyon who owns corporate consulting in Charlottesville, Virginia with his son, Brett he's, he's just a great guy. I,

00:26:50 and I, and I can talk about him even, I'm not to give a commercial, but he's just a dear friend. He's helped me so much that, Oh, a lot of my own success to him. Uh, he said, well, Mark, he said, uh, you know, the thing that you have to understand about tough economic times is that that's not what takes companies down.

00:27:19 You said, you want to know what takes the company down. I disjointed management team that doesn't want the same thing and is fighting amongst themselves during uncertain and tough economic periods. So companies, legendary companies have fallen during the best of times because they had management teams that didn't want the same thing and we're not aligned. And we have seen great companies actually get their biggest,

00:28:05 like spurt of growth during tough times because they had a management team that was aligned. That was in sync that wanted the same thing. So what I would say to all of, you know, anyone who listens to this, who is a leader is that the first job is to align yourself with the other leaders in your organization and where you're not aligned,

00:28:31 get the wrong people off the bus, because I'm going to tell you, we're in tough times, that's going to bring out a lot of emotion at the very minimum. We better all want the same thing. And we better all be going for the same outcome because no one is going to achieve anything meaningful by themselves ever. It just doesn't work out that way.

00:28:54 That's not what, that's not the way things work in life or in business. And if you think you've gotta be the smartest person you got find out, you're not one day and that's gonna be, you know, you gotta, you gotta be willing to like put yourself second and have people that are smarter than you are. I it's one of my,

00:29:18 I don't think I'm the smartest guy. And yet I do know that I am not threatened by people who think or are smarter than I am. I'm lifted up by them. Can you talk about the circle of five a little bit? Yeah. Um, so let me, let me say this. Um, can I give some context here? Totally.

00:29:39 Okay, good. So I, um, I studied the 21 irrefutable laws of leadership by John Maxwell. Many, many times I've read it multiple times, gone to it as like, almost like a reference book. And you know, that book start, you know, the law that that book starts with is the law of the lid was still as a story about McDonald's the McDonald's brothers and McDonald's franchise and how they basically had opened Tim franchise,

00:30:10 the first 10, they opened and failed and they did not know how to sell franchise. They did not know how to build a business model, but they sure didn't know how to turn a burger around quickly at a time when you couldn't get fast food. So, uh, incomes right. Crock. And he tells that story. But the law of the lid,

00:30:27 I wouldn't say it's important for everyone to understand, because if your business is not performing and you're the one driving it forward, you could be the lid that is keeping it now. So until you understand that the circle of five doesn't mean anything, you have to start there. And that, that can be a little bit tough. Right? So now having said that,

00:30:51 um, I focused on three laws from the 21 irrefutable laws of leadership during coronavirus. And I've been teaching this and the first is the law of the inner circle. And I started actually sorta pruning my inner circle when coronavirus showed up. Because the people that you, you know, it's like this up, I've seen this over and over again, Jamie,

00:31:28 you can take the five people you spend the most time with your five closest friends, the five individuals that are in your life, more frequently than anybody else, you add their income up. You can divide it by five and that's going to be within a couple of thousand dollars a year of what you're earning right now. I mean, it, it,

00:31:48 it works like that. At least for me, it has worked like that again. And again and again. So either you got to have somebody who's way up there, high and avoid the ones that are down low. And then, you know, you might have a little variety, which is kind of what I've done for years. Cause I like understanding all different walks of life.

00:32:10 Um, that I, I do think the five people you listened to the most have the most, you know, they're influencing you and what you say more than what you read or what, you know, what, anything else that's a greatest influence on your life. The five people that are in your ear very most cause you to do what you do cause you to behave way you behave,

00:32:40 put ceilings on your possibilities, either a high or low based on how they think you get around people that have earned the right to be in your circle of five and get people out of your life that have not earned the right to be in your circle of five. Number one thing, this coronavirus opportunity is an opportunity to kind of weed your garden, so to speak.

00:33:10 And it's an opportunity to create new, meaningful relationships that can bear fruit. And so that, that was the first thing that I focused on. I just let me look at my inner circle and let me think about this. Let me think about what I want. Let me think about my own results and where I'm actually feeling like my results are less dollar than stellar than what I,

00:33:37 what I'm capable of or what I want or what I crave for my life. And you'll find the answer and the five people you hang out with the most, and you may have five in business. You might, uh, five, uh, personally, and then you can, you can distinguish the category of your life even as you might, if you have five great mentors and great inner circle of five in business,

00:34:09 but you don't have a great inner circle of five at home, your home life could be a wreck and your business life could be wonderful. Just every area of your life. Look at that circle of five. And remember that, that will determine your trajectory more than any other thing about your life. That's a big, wow. And they don't want to,

00:34:35 they don't want to do that often because it's painful. It means, Oh, I've got to hurt somebody's feelings. Oh, I've got to do it. Doesn't mean that just means you just have to shuffle and rearrange a little bit. And no, there's no such thing in this life as permanent life is fluid. It's almost like, it's almost like it's a body of water.

00:35:05 It's always moving. Do you know what I always, I am. I love humans and I care about humans and I probably have the same, um, challenge you do with the takeaway. And I think, you know, I've been coached over time to, to frame it as look, every decision, you know, is don't make a decision because you're worried about what you can be worried about,

00:35:30 but have faith that everyone's better off when, when everyone's doing what's right for them. So you, you know, rearranging your, your inner circle. Maybe somebody gets less time with you, but maybe that's good for them because they get less time with someone else who needs to have an impact on their life. You know, you do what's right for you and the outcomes,

00:35:52 you know, everybody has the opportunity to do what's right for them. I'm a business consultant. Give me some context on that. And you know, it's interesting how life works. I can tell you that. You know, when I, when I retired from being the active CEO of Keller Williams and, and you know, I had hit all my personal goals and,

00:36:17 um, hadn't really set new personal goals. And I had freedom for the first time, really my entire life. I never had freedom. And, um, I remember then feeling like I really didn't know what I wanted because once I had freedom, I missed all the attachments that I Meaning and purpose. Right. I mean, yeah. Meaning and purpose.

00:36:55 And I had to self discover that my identity was not what I did and it certainly wasn't what I had. It certainly wasn't what I had helped build. My identity was what I am inside. And that, that was such a great piece of context for me to get. But you could have told me that was going to happen and I wouldn't have even understood it going through.

00:37:29 It brought a different level of context. You know what I'm saying? So I would, I would, I would definitely say, um, that, that, that, um, you know, we, we have to self discover our way through life. Uh, but there, there are two other laws and I think that these are actually, I'm on deal with three,

00:37:48 but one of them is my law. Okay. I'll do another couple of John Maxwell laws. Um, John Maxwell talks about the law of the picture. And, um, you know, the first thing we have to understand is that people do what people see. And so you've got all of these leaders of coworking organizations. Now they may not have even thought of themselves as leaders.

00:38:25 They might've just said, Hey, I'm a business owner. And I own a, uh, you know, I'm a landlord basically. And I have these tenants and we all work together. Well, you, I think this is what you've been saying all alone, along at that they are leaders and they have a responsibility to lead right now. And where that responsibility shows up during difficult times,

00:38:53 like right now, because you have to show people what they need to do, how they're going to survive, what decisions have to be made. You have to lead by example or your people aren't going to know what to do because they just can't see it. We've got to show people right now more than ever. The law of the picture is alive and well.

00:39:19 And we've got to remember people do what people see, we got to show them what it is that they can do that will bring meaning and value to their lives and help them survive this, this crisis, this pandemic, um, you know, I could get off on a tangent about equality and all the racial stuff that's been going on. Um, I'm not gonna do that,

00:39:47 but I think we even have a responsibility as leaders to take a stand against anything that's not right. That's unfair. And to take a stand for fairness and equality among all, uh, Gary Keller had a great saying at, um, Keller Williams about our profit share program. He's a, um, no, he said, um, it's not that, that it is completely equal opportunity,

00:40:26 but it's not going to be evenly distributed, meaning that you have to earn the right through what you do. And that, that always brought great context, but showing people how they contribute, showing people what they need to do. And then the other law that I love. And this is just because I tend to be, I believe in people and that is the law of victory.

00:40:55 We have to make people see that they're going to be okay there. They're not going to falter simply because we've had a little pandemic simply because we have an economic crisis. There are going to be okay, we're going to survive this. We, we have what it takes. We have the commitment. We have the resources where we don't have the resources we will rearrange.

00:41:25 We will be okay. And we are going to win in the end. We will be victorious. And I think that people need that encouragement right now. They need to know it's going to be okay. It will be okay. You know what? This is not life or death. I've experienced that. Cause you know, that's why I have a foundation.

00:41:50 Uh, and, and that that's a whole, I have, you know, just to give a little context to what I'm talking about. Um, you know, about 19 months ago, my wife was diagnosed with breast cancer. She died five months later and I literally, uh, and she had a mammogram every single year for the 35 years, we were married.

00:42:13 And, um, you just don't think of breast cancer as being that dangerous. Um, you don't, you know, I just have to tell you that this business situation, it's not like you got somebody who's on the operating table, who's going to die. It's not like someone who has an irreversible disease that it's not going to go away. That's going to one day kill them.

00:42:36 We're going to be okay. And we keep going. Um, the one mantra that I got by the way, I hope I hope this is okay, but you know, I got this mantra while my wife was really sick. One of my closest friends, daughters brought on mother's day came and spent mother's day with us. So we had mother's day on Sunday,

00:43:00 that was the 12th. And then on may the 14th, Tuesday semi passed away. So two days later and she, my friend's daughter, who's like my own daughter shows up and she has this bracelet and it's got K a G on the inside of the bracelet. I'm giving the initials K a G. And, um, that stands for keep effing going.

00:43:32 But it wasn't the real word, but I'm not going say it. So I'm not, I don't want to be back I'm on four. We'll keep the podcast clean, but Keep it going. But I think y'all can use your imagination. You know what I'm talking about? Okay. G keep effing going. You know, that's sometimes the law victories just keep freaking going.

00:43:57 Yeah. Or if you, when you don't want to keep going. Yeah. But is it your perspective also that it's okay to believe that we can keep going without having all the answers. You're never going to have all the answers And that's part of our role as leaders, right. To help. We'll see that we will get through it. Even if I can't tell you exactly how Well,

00:44:21 I mean, one thing about the certain one thing that's for certain is that the future is uncertain. Always. Now we live, live is the life is a certainty and death is an uncertainty. Yeah. Isn't uncertainty and death is a certainty. So as you live your life, remember that your first responsibility is to yourself, not to anybody else. And the reason that is,

00:44:55 is so that you do what you need to do. So you can now help other people and have empathy along the way that really helped people. But unless you are being responsible and true to yourself, you're, you're not gonna, you're not gonna really have the battery life to be able to help people. And, um, I do think that there are times when we don't want to keep going.

00:45:32 And that's usually when we have to keep going with the most like commitment and passion and drive KFG bracelet. Okay. You have to buddy. Okay. So you gave us three of John Maxwell's laws. What's the market? Well, that's law law. Self-talk when you wake up in the morning, when you go to bed at night, when you're with your friends,

00:45:58 when you're can, you know, I think a lot of people compare themselves to others. I think a lot of people think that they don't have what it takes at times. Their self-talk says that really honestly, the best experience I have the whole year of 2017 was I got to spend a day with Michael singer. Michael singer is the author of the surrender experiment and the book,

00:46:23 the untethered soul. And I'm, I'm sharing my, uh, my favorite books list with you. And you can share that however you want to, uh, both of those books are on my favorite books list. So just getting the chance to hang out with this author that I really loved was, was a super special experience for me. But, uh,

00:46:45 Michael singer said to me, you know, he said, um, watch out for the roommate in your head, That little voice that lives in there In this context. I mean, he said, you know, if you lived with somebody who talked to you, the way that you talk to yourself, you would kick that person out of your house.

00:47:17 Yeah. What we do is we tell ourselves we're not worthy. We're not good enough and File an abuse claim. If that was a real human it's self Abuse, it's all screwed up. It's not right. And stop in a way that's negative and stop saying that everything's good or bad or right or wrong. Just deal with what is and stop having guilt over the past.

00:47:49 All you have is right now, and you don't know what the F is going to happen tomorrow. We just saw that for sure. All we have is right now, live in the now either. Now I love that. Okay. So you've shared some of your rules you've shared. So your book list, I have the book list and Mark, I can't believe I have your book list from when you spoke,

00:48:13 which is now, I don't know, a year and a half ago, or whenever that was, I'm going to read the book list now. So I'll share it in the show notes. There'll be a link to, Mark's a PDF of his favorite book books. And a lot of these concepts are, are shared in there. So I'm on that besides the books.

00:48:32 So, you know, leadership is such an evolution and I feel like it's something, it's a practice. Yeah. You know, cause right. We can let the roommate take over and we can, you know, and I always, I always get impatient, you know, I'm like, Oh, why don't I know all these things, you know,

00:48:48 he got up, but we're, and we're always served with new situations. Like what just happened. Maybe some of us didn't realize we were leaders until now, you know? And then we have to, we have to lead through a hard time and taking a new stance and seeing that as an identity. What advice would you give to people to start kind of making that,

00:49:06 you know, a life practice of taking on that role and developing it? Well, I would say the first thing is to understand yourself and what you want and what matters, and then try to narrow that as much as possible down to a definable role, hopefully all your people. I mean, I would say two things. If, if you've got followers that are saying,

00:49:40 well, you know, I'm doing something that doesn't matter to me. I don't know. What's important to me and I'm not enjoying this, which I'm, I'm sure there are people that are saying that right now. Um, I would say that that awareness is a gift, but I would also say chances are, they are serving people that are not lifting them up.

00:50:07 And they are serving people that are whining and boring the M and have a really urgent. I know this is true for me that if I ever got bored at what I did, because I was surrounding myself with people that were boring me here, that I got doing what I was doing, I was surrounded by people that bored me. I was letting people that were boring me have the majority of my time.

00:50:38 Yeah. So that goes right back to the inner circle. I would say, this is a really good opportunity to take inventory and determine how passionate are you about what you do, how much do your people matter to you? Uh, do you understand what matters to, to you in terms of, what's really, really important about your career, future and your life,

00:51:01 and are you in harmony with that and where you need to do to get in harmony with that because you can't lead authentically otherwise. And you know, I, I actually believe that you it's, it's kind of like, um, if you're doing something and you're not enjoying it, and you say all the right things, people don't believe you, have you ever met someone for whatever reason,

00:51:32 just when you met them, you just don't like them. I'll bet you, the person that you were talking to knew you didn't like them. And I think that's why we have to be authentic about how we lead. We have to come. I know at Keller Williams and in everything that I've done, um, that the thing that has mattered to me the most was liking who I lead,

00:52:03 knowing what I didn't have to love them, but caring about them really, really important. And I believe that beyond that, what made me effective was I really understood that I want him to build the largest real estate company in the world. So I was doing what mattered to me. I was literally doing what mattered to me. Um, I think we have to be in harmony with what matters.

00:52:33 Yeah. And it's a time to really, um, be reflective of that and be intentional. And I think you shared some of that with your own life. It's like, we go, go, go, and then we're forced to stop. Literally just be with ourselves. So it's about really, it could be about managing our time more effectively too.

00:52:52 Yeah. Well that, I mean, a lot of the things that you've talked about, the, the five circles certainly, and, and how much that impacts and, and, you know, that's part of managing your time and who's who you spend it with and, and yeah. And, and knowing for ourselves, Do you ever read Robert ringer million dollar habits now?

00:53:14 I don't think so. I do read a lot of, you know, business books. That's what I'm like. I can't believe I ever read it Mostly that are always like, I love thinking for rich, but you know what, the first habit that they say, every millionaire has no what the reality habit, they have a clearer vision and understanding of their present reality.

00:53:39 And I think that right now, we have to know that somewhat realizing that our all way of operating isn't going work anymore, our old way of doing business, just taking out work anymore. Um, don't, don't function in an unrealistic environment because you won't, you won't be effective. Mark. I'm curious about sort of your, um, your schedule used to be like,

00:54:09 go, go, go, go, go, go. And you, you mentioned a lot of zoom calls. How has that shifted for you sort of taking a little, Oh, a moment to reflect and kind of refocus, You know, um, I went through a period. It's interesting. So if I give a little context, when I left Keller Williams,

00:54:27 I had, you know, I had hit just about every goal that I'd ever said. I had hit all the financial goals and all the achievement goals that I ever set. And then I, I looked up and I thought, well, the mistake I made was not knowing what was next before I got there. And so I've had to go through a process.

00:54:48 I actually have called the last several years. Uh, I read some Winston Churchill and Winston Churchill talks about his years in the wilderness. I feel a little bit like I've been in my own wilderness for the last few years and that, you know, that, that whole concept of years in the wilderness, I actually I've brought this because I wanted to share this because this is one of the things Winston Churchill,

00:55:18 who himself spent about 10 years in political XL after world war one wrote that every prophet has to come from civilization, but every prophet has to go into the wilderness. He must have a strong impression of a complex society and all that society has to give. And then he must serve periods of isolation and meditation. This is the process by which psychic dynamite is made.

00:55:56 Yeah. That's an interesting observation from him for, for so long ago before people, you know, I don't know necessarily thought that way. That's really interesting. Well, I am reading a book about Winston Churchill. I haven't gotten to the wilderness part yet. What people don't know is that had he not had his years in the wilderness, he wouldn't have been prepared to gone Hitler and world war two and lead Britain and the Western world out of the most awful Gilmore we've experienced that brought literally the cold war dynamic to the table.

00:56:35 Winston Churchill, along with FDR was the guy who arrested us out of that. And it's why we're okay today. So it's okay to go and be your wilderness. So I grant, you asked me, I had my years in the wilderness and after the light by socking, Dynamite's been bathed and I'm ready to serve at a high level. So if people ask me to zoom out zoom and,

00:56:58 you know, I prefer in person and yet I feel like I've had my psychic data bike kinda made and I'm ready to serve all over again. And it's been great for me. Good. I love it. Well, thank you for, um, joining me today. Any, anything you wanted to cover that we missed? Well, I would just say this,

00:57:18 um, anyone who's listening who wants to understand more about our foundation, she go to Willis family foundation.org. The whole story is, is, uh, you know, you can just read it from, start to finishing and find out about our foundation it's for the research and advancement, uh, cancer detecting canines, which offer the greatest hope for early cancer detection.

00:57:43 And I would just say that, um, we, we've got a start up foundation and I appreciate all the awareness that we can create. So if I can use this as a plug to create awareness about that foundation, that'd be great. Um, and, uh, I hope that, uh, I get to, uh, do this again with you sometime soon.

00:58:03 I've just, I've loved it. And it's been, it's been an honor and a pleasure and thank you so much for giving me this opportunity and for us to have this opportunity to reconnect Mark the feeling's mutual. Thank you so much for taking the time and for sharing your perspective. I have great, a great deal of respect for your leadership capabilities and your history.

00:58:23 And, you know, some of that comes with, you know, time in the trenches and have loved to learn anything that we can from that. And we will link to the Willis family foundation info in the show notes for anybody who's interested, um, and, and other, uh, links of marks. If you want to learn more. Thank you again.

00:58:41 Terrific. I've enjoyed it so much. Thank you, Jamie. Great to reconnect.

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